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I'm not so keen on lie detector tests. I think they should consider the one using the brain scan. That would require a real expert to read the results of... and probably that would mean a whole new guy's testimony with a fresh start. It would also be one where lies would be soon drawn out and the truth be the only thing left standing.
For me, the hair in the ligature is enough... because that other hair over on the stump just won't be explained away. Not in this lifetime except being there for the reason it was. There you have it from me.
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Tank
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I'm not keen on lie detector tests either Polly.
In fact, I would rather he not take one, because I believe research has shown time and time again, a true sociopath can pass one every time. I believe this is why a LD test is not admissible in court. LD tests depend upon emotional responses to questions, which, in turn, effects breathing, pulse, and skin.
Watch him NOT respond to questions, or even better, not respond in any fashion to the statements by Amanda about abuse being read to him in the Deposition videos.
I would hate to see him take one, pass, and then have to endure the ongoing controversy as a result of something basically meaningless with regard to getting at the truth from a sociopath.
If I had my druthers, I would want him to face an ACE trial lawyer, trying to lie responding to a relentless barrage of questions regarding facts, faced with the evidence and testimony at hand, in front of a jury.
How many of you have not imagined that scenario.
D, J, & J will go free. TH will face this scenario. I know it in my heart and mind to be true.
Tank
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Larry- "We found a knife in a lake"
Curly- "It's an 11"
Moe- "I'm tired of this case"
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Pally
New Member
Posts: 17
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I saw a piece with TH on our local Fox news here in Memphis...he was going on and on about being harassed, how it's taking such a toll on him and his family, yada, yada. That's why (IF he's innocent) I don't understand why he won't do whatever it takes to shut everyone up in regards to him being THE GUILTY ONE! I know you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but the info is out there now (Hair/DNA, witnesses that say he DID see Stevie that afternoon, etc.) Maybe he should stop spending so much on lawyers suing celebrities for defamation of character and spend it on a "High Tech" version of a Polygraph (the deal with the brain scan or such) I know if I was being accused of something so horrendous, and I was completely innocent, I would take such a test in a West Memphis Minute!!....Oooo...no, on 2nd thought, NOT a West Memphis Minute. They turn into 17 Years, don't they?
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Leci
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I am not an advocate for the polygraph, but I do trust experts such as Ed Gelb. I think it highly depends on the examiner, from all of the elements of controls, drugs, mental illnesses, recognizing "fooling" methods, etc. I believe there are not a great number of polygraphers who are highly qualified enough to truly give a fully accurate assessment. I definitely do not see Durham as anything but a pawn with some power. Is it true that he only received moderate training and certification especially for this case, or is that a rumor? If so, we can flush the experience quality (that is certainly needed in a case of this magnitude) right down the commode/toilet. I think one day they may be admissible in court, but many inexact sciences are in-- such as fiber evidence and psychologists. If both sides agree to their being introduced, in many states, they can be allowed in... but I have not personally seen that occur very often. I do not hold polygraph results as gospel, especially with an administrator like Durham, but I can see them as significantly helpful if done by a renowned and professional polygrapher with a high to almost flawless known accuracy rate in results. I know that they are valuable in investigations, as my father works at a crime lab and their polygraph area gets quite a bit of play. Unlike the WMPD, they have an assigned specialist to conduct "lie detector tests" in more complicated cases instead of permitting someone with few credentials to "break the case open" in the local department by someone who is not so well at conducting these tests. It is such a shame that people can be dubbed a liar because a dumbass examiner says so. Is it not ironic and hypocritical that plenty of "nons" that I have met in real life that NEVER believed in polygraphs feel that the three are guilty because of Jessie's and Damien's alleged failed polys?  PUH-LEASE! Yikes, my signature line on the PL3 board and this one is like a mini-book!  Too many good quotes and messages to select from, I guess. *hides* |
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“Justice while she winks at crimes, Stumbles on innocence sometimes." -Samuel Butler
"To sin is a human business, to justify sins is a devilish business.” -Leo Nikolaevich
"Freedom is never an achieved state; like electricity, we've got to keep generating it or the lights go out." -Wayne LaPierre
"Our evolution didn't hinge on passivity... Raise your voice!" -Bad Religion
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Tank
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Good stuff Pally and Betty.
Welcome...BTW!
If TH took a LD test, and "passed", would you believe him to be innocent in this mess?
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Larry- "We found a knife in a lake"
Curly- "It's an 11"
Moe- "I'm tired of this case"
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Leci
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Good stuff Pally and Betty.
Welcome...BTW!
If TH took a LD test, and "passed", would you believe him to be innocent in this mess?
Nope, probably not... unless Ed Gelb gave it!  LOL Afterall, he did polygraph the guy that claimed Courtney Love tried to hire him to kill Kurt Cobain. I never saw him involving himself in that case, but I think Current Affair hired him because they did not want to have this El Duce guy on if he was a liar. I am with ya, Tank... I think there are a few creepy folks who can pass them, even FBI-administered, like Ted Bundy. I do not see Hobbs as "good enough" to pass because I draw a line between sociopathy an psychopathy, even though I am no expert and neither personality is very flattering. JMO! By his eye patterns and body language, even though he lies it looks to me like his body rejects much of the shit that spews from his pursed lips. I'm not an armchair diagnosis propagandist or anything, just my feelings and thoughts on the dude. I know I very well could be wrong, but I do not think that he could pass one... and I think he knows this because maybe he is not the kinda' feller who can completely convince his mind and body that the trash he delivers is truth. I wish I was an expert so I could so fancily-schmancily give an expert opinion instead of a semi-educated one.  Haha. What do you think, Tank? |
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“Justice while she winks at crimes, Stumbles on innocence sometimes." -Samuel Butler
"To sin is a human business, to justify sins is a devilish business.” -Leo Nikolaevich
"Freedom is never an achieved state; like electricity, we've got to keep generating it or the lights go out." -Wayne LaPierre
"Our evolution didn't hinge on passivity... Raise your voice!" -Bad Religion
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Tank
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Good stuff Pally and Betty.
Welcome...BTW!
If TH took a LD test, and "passed", would you believe him to be innocent in this mess?
Nope, probably not... unless Ed Gelb gave it! LOL Afterall, he did polygraph the guy that claimed Courtney Love tried to hire him to kill Kurt Cobain. I never saw him involving himself in that case, but I think Current Affair hired him because they did not want to have this El Duce guy on if he was a liar. I am with ya, Tank... I think there are a few creepy folks who can pass them, even FBI-administered, like Ted Bundy. I do not see Hobbs as "good enough" to pass because I draw a line between sociopathy an psychopathy, even though I am no expert and neither personality is very flattering. JMO! By his eye patterns and body language, even though he lies it looks to me like his body rejects much of the shit that spews from his pursed lips. I'm not an armchair diagnosis propagandist or anything, just my feelings and thoughts on the dude. I know I very well could be wrong, but I do not think that he could pass one... and I think he knows this because maybe he is not the kinda' feller who can completely convince his mind and body that the trash he delivers is truth. I wish I was an expert so I could so fancily-schmancily give an expert opinion instead of a semi-educated one. Haha. What do you think, Tank? Wow BratButt! I don't know where to start!  "Fancily-schmancily"?? I LOVE that!!! Can I use that without crediting you? LMAO I am FAR from an expert on this LD thing. I do know I had to take one every 90 days, for 5 years, back in the late seventies/early eighties as a store manager for a large national consumer electronics firm. It made me aware that, while limited in it's legal use, it was a real deterrant for otherwise honest folks who may fall to temptation in a wonderland of electronic equipment. I also learned that I had employees who could beat it every time, and finally caught them in the act. I would hope that the reliability has come far since those days. Neither am I an expert in sociopathy/psychopathy. It is my understanding that they are, for the most part, the same thing, excepting the origins of such an illness. Perhaps sociopath was the wrong term. I am not an "armchair diagnosis propagandist" either....at least I hope I don't appear to be such a thing..whatever that is.  I do believe TH displays very disturbing traits. He has been shown to have never conformed to societal norms, regarding the family with Pam and the kids. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, he believes he is the victim. He believes he didn't shoot Hicks intentionaly. He does not believe he has violent tendancies. He believes beating his children is OK. He believes his drug use falls into the socially acceptable norms, therefore, is not wrong. I could go on and on. I believe that people like him can handle a polygraph, especially under the influence of drugs/medication. I used to fire punks like him for stealing who passed the poly. In my experience, if someone truly believes these things, they will have no perceptable reaction to a polygraph machine. I am glad to hear you would not believe him if he passed one. I would not either. |
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Larry- "We found a knife in a lake"
Curly- "It's an 11"
Moe- "I'm tired of this case"
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Tank
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I would like to add, once again, that he may be able to fool a machine, but with the right trial lawyer interrogating him in front of the right jury, he will lose! Every time!
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Larry- "We found a knife in a lake"
Curly- "It's an 11"
Moe- "I'm tired of this case"
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Justice
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According to John Douglas yes he would pass it. But yes against a good trial lawyer like oh let's say Clarence Darrow or even Johnny Cochran he wouldn't stand a chance! |
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Pally
New Member
Posts: 17
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Yeah..polygraphs are an inexact science/technology. So, what's the take on the polygraph that Byers "passed?"
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Shivas
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Pally, I have seen several of your posts that make back-handed allegations about JMB. What in the hell do you have against him?
JMB is NOT a suspect. He is also the only parent or step-parent that has been open-minded enough to look at all of the evidence and come to the conclusion that Damien, Jason, and Jessie were railroaded, and are sitting in prison for a crime they did not commit.
I am tired of the veiled accusations. If you have something against Mark, be a man/woman and come right out and say it. ASK HIM! In case you didn't know, he is a moderator on this board.
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Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense." - Carl Sagan
If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities--Voltaire
Civilizations die when Dogma drowns Discovery--me
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effigy
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Yeah..polygraphs are an inexact science/technology. So, what's the take on the polygraph that Byers "passed?"
Actually, Mark Byers had requested this polygraph to be done. Guilty people don't insist on having polygraphs done. Innocent people that would like their name cleared are more apt to do this. He passed with flying colors. Mark is held in high regard on this board. He has gone above and beyond to bring justice to all six! |
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No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris
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Pally
New Member
Posts: 17
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Shivas, I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING against Mark Byers! I was merely commenting about the pros & cons of polygraphs and I know MB took one. I'm not aware of any of the other parents/stepparents taking one. Maybe others have (I think I read something here about Damien & Jason taking one..I didn't know that!) I'm trying to catch up and learn more about all this..that's why I'm here! Mark Byers? I happen to believe him..polygraph, no polygraph or telegraph. The ONLY thing I can see in my posts that could be taken the wrong way (regarding MB) is a post where I said something about "Suspects." I included MB in that short list.. but what I meant, concerning him, was BACK IN THE DAY when he WAS suspected by so many....NOT NOW! Sorry for that.. I certainly didn't make it clear in that post! Actually, when fingers were pointing in his direction, I bought into it for about a 1/4 of a second...then I went NAH..THIS ISN'T ADDING UP EITHER! And yes, I'm totally aware he has come forward and has had a change of heart about D J & J...and that he is working towards JUSTICE for them.
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Leci
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I would like to add, once again, that he may be able to fool a machine, but with the right trial lawyer interrogating him in front of the right jury, he will lose! Every time!
Damn straight! Oh, and Justice... I wish Johnnie Cochran was alive and well and would be able to prosecute. He's so good as a defense lawyer and pretty versatile, I think he's tear Terry a few new assholes!  Tank, use "fancily-schmancily" all ya want, no credit necessary. I probably unknowingly stole it from someone else also!  I agree that if Terry is a psychopath, he could pass one as John Douglas predicts. Who am I to argue with his expertise?  Psychopaths and sociopaths have often been squeezed together as the same animal, but there are a few of us psychological loons that distinguish them in that psychopaths are better planners and more clean about their crimes and are better about not getting caught in their lies and crimes because they believe they are destined to rape, kill, torture, whatever they decide to do, etc. Most pros will dub Bundy, Rader, Manson, Green River, and Gacy as psychopaths. They were not caught for a long time and were constantly ready for a new victim and would eventually confess to their crimes and be so proud that they would even claim they were responsible for crimes they probably did not commit because they relish in their "skills" and the notoriety. People like Scott Peterson, Casey Anthony, the Columbine killers (specifically Dylan Klebold), and O.J. Simpson as sociopaths. While they are usually pathological or compulsive liars, they more more impulsive and do often get caught in their lies. They do not think as much before they act and, just as remorseless as the psychopath, they justify what they have done to themselves but rarely confess. How the Columbine boys may fit in there is a long story and is debated among many psychologists and psychiatrists; but the sociopaths often do not think as much before they act and the psychopaths are usually more calculating... not that sociopaths do not plan, just that they do not always cover all the bases and often have to go back and cover up or fix things because they do not do things right the first time. I think with psychopaths too, they usually wind up being openly proud to be a killer, i.e. The sociopath usually wants to look good to other people. Another thing I've noticed in most cases, big and small, psychopaths like Ramirez (the Night Stalker) leave signs and have method to their madness, in their minds. Those kinds of crime scenes will be more "prepared," I think that is the right word. A sociopath like Joran van der Sloot (Holloway suspect) also plays games but cannot keep track of his own lies and still seeks to prove he is a "good boy"... He is more impulsive and talks at the drop of a hat and does damage control later. To a lot of professionals, a "psycho" is more programmed and would have a plan divised before opening their traps so liberally. Blah, blah, blah... Here I go yapping again. At any rate, Hobbs is one of those! lol For those who believe (and there are docs out there who do) they are one and the same, I guess it doesn't matter. We all know he is a cold-hearted "wah-wah" titty baby boy who is alwayyyyyyyysssssss the victim, always the good guy, the only honest guy in a world full of crooks.  I personally think he is a sociopath myself, but I know I'm not qualified to state that as fact... just an opinion. Either way, I wouldn't want Scott Peterson or Gacy (if he was alive) to Thanksgiving dinner! Maybe Hobbs, if kids were at their dad's, so he could see how it feels to get his ass kicked by a feisty l'il woman. |
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“Justice while she winks at crimes, Stumbles on innocence sometimes." -Samuel Butler
"To sin is a human business, to justify sins is a devilish business.” -Leo Nikolaevich
"Freedom is never an achieved state; like electricity, we've got to keep generating it or the lights go out." -Wayne LaPierre
"Our evolution didn't hinge on passivity... Raise your voice!" -Bad Religion
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Justice
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LOL....BBB, perhaps the lying fool could choke on a bone. Yes the cases you discussed did show how they can lie and be believable to those around them. Look at Bundy he volunteered at a suicide crisis center and who sat right beside him a former policewoman and now crime writer Ann Rule! She didn't have the slightest clue then.
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