Terry Hobbs' WMPD Interview - Video

[rugs]

Part 1

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Officer: Well I've never gone feeling anything like that so I can't sit here and say that I can imagine how it is cause I, I

Terry Hobbs: It's sad to have to, you know it's sad that you have to live with it,

Officer: Ya

Terry Hobbs: and it's even worse that there's people out here like them defense investigators that's just...
"motions hand" my son told me yesterday, he said he had talk to

Officer: Do you have your micro cassette in?

Officer: Huh?

Officer: Micro cassette?

Officer: Don't have one, get one

Officer: Ya, you'll get one and we'll just set it in here to that way we'll be, it'll be easier for him.

Officers: "get up to get micro cassette, two officers in room, one gets up, one goes to sit at desk"

Terry Hobbs: Well, they drug you into it as well, "laughs"

Officer: Oh

Terry Hobbs: you say you started here in 94?

Officer: No sir, I was actually I've been here since uh 91

Terry Hobbs: Ok

Officer: 1991

Officer: Um, but I wasn't uh, wasn't working in the criminal investigation division in 93, 94 and I didn't come until 96

Terry Hobbs: Ok

Officer: Upstairs here, been here ever since.

Door opens

Officer back, coughs, hands other officer micro cassette

Officer looking at cassette speaks into cassette

Officer: testing one two three

Officer plays back tape to ensure it's working, recording of his testing one, two three is heard.

Officer: K

Officer: Today's date is Thursday June 21 2007, time now is 9:32am, I'm detective Lt. Ken Mitchell, presently along with detective Chuck Knolls. We're presently in the CDA office of the West Memphis police dept. conducting an interview with Mr. Terry Wayne Hobbs - H. O. B. B. S.

Officer: Um, in reference to uh, the uh triple homicide of three little boys from 1993, Uh "cough" The case number is 93 0 5 0 666 is the case number and uh I'd like to go back over a couple things with you if I could to start off with.

Officer: Uh the first one is a rule truth point 2, 3 rights form Um that Detective Knolls went over with you just a few minutes ago, um do you understand the 2 point 3 and are you here voluntarily today Terry?

Terry Hobbs: I understood the rule and I am here voluntarily

Officer: Ok, the first signature below that, is that yours?

Terry Hobbs: Yes sir

Officer: and below your signature is that Detective Knolls, the witness

Terry Hobbs: Yes sir

Officer: Ok, now I was not present, for, when he went over this with him

Terry Hobbs: Correct

Officer: Great, ok

Officer: What's your, uh, if you would your full name and date of birth.

Terry Hobbs: Terry Wayne Hobbs, 5-21-1958

Officer: Your currently how old right now?

Terry Hobbs: 49

Officer: Great

Officer: Terry Um, What we'd like to do and what I was telling you just a few minutes ago Um, is uh, the Prosecuting Attorney Mr. Davis has asked us to interview a couple of people, uh, in light of some Umm, possible new evidence that they may have come up and just to uh fill in some blanks I guess uh as far as this case goes um that might be helpful.

Officer: Umm, and that's, that's what we've been asked to do and that's why we called and asked you, you know Detective knolls called you yesterday and asked if you could come in, and I appreciate greatly uh your availability to us. I mean that you came in and came in and do this.

Officer: What we'd like to do with you to start out with, if you would, if you would take us back to, to May the 5th 1993, Ok and I'm going to start out by just asking a few questions and I'm going to let you kinda just walk us through the day in your mind what you can remember. If your not sure of something, you know, just tell us your not sure. What you don't know you don't know. Umm, I'm gonna put this a little closer to you to make it a little clearer when your speaking to us, uh, do you uh, where were you living, where were you living on May the 5th, 1993?

Terry Hobbs: May the 5th we were living on McCauley street in West Memphis.

Officer: Do you remember the address:

Terry Hobbs: 1601

Officer: K and who, k and who all lived in that house

Terry Hobbs: Terry, Pam, Stevie and Amanda

Officer: k, uhh, mutter, and for purposes of this interview, uh when you say Pam who are you talking about?

Terry Hobbs: Pam Hobbs, my wife

Officer: K

Terry Hobbs: At the time.

Officer: And when you said Stevie

Terry Hobbs: Pam's, our, my stepson, Pam's son.

Officer: Uh, what's his last name?

Terry Hobbs: Steve Edward Branch, that's his full name.

Officer: K and how old was Stevie at the time?

Terry Hobbs: At the time, 8 years old.

Officer: K and you said Amanda?

Terry Hobbs: Amanda, Hobbs, she was 4 at the time.

Officer: K, Umm, was she um your daughter with Pam?

Terry Hobbs: Correct

Officer: OK, alright, you said she was 4.

Terry Hobbs: Correct, born here in West Memphis.

Officer: Ok, and on on May the 5th of that year umm, did, was Pam working anywhere?

Terry Hobbs: Uhh, Catfish Island, in West Memphis. I'm not sure of the street but it's over by that union 76 truck stop.

Officer: Ok and Umm, at that particular time where you also working?

Terry Hobbs: I was working at Memphis Ice Cream Company in Memphis Tennessee.

Officer: Where, where is Memphis

Terry Hobbs: 914 James street

Officer: James, is it still

Terry Hobbs: It's still there

Officer: It's still there?

Terry Hobbs: Uh huh

Officer: What was your, what was your job title and job description?

Terry Hobbs: I was a merchandiser, I sold Ice Cream


Officer: Do you uh, do you do that over the phone or do you have a route?

Terry Hobbs: I ran a route

Officer: You ran a route?

Terry Hobbs: uh hmm

Officer: What did your route consist of?

Terry Hobbs: Going to Ma and Pa stores, little corner groceries, to fill the freezers and selling ice cream.

Officer: Was that uh, was your route strictly in Tennessee or

Terry Hobbs: No, I come to West Memphis

Officer: Did you

Terry Hobbs: Forest City, out that way. Marianna

Officer: Did you, Did you, so do you have a route in Tennessee and in Arkansas

Terry Hobbs: And Mississippi

Officer: And Mississippi, OK, uh, umm do you remember working on May the 5th 1993?

Terry Hobbs: I do

Officer: What was your, do you remember your schedule that day? What time you got up and went and what time you got home?

Terry Hobbs: "burp" excuse me, I usually went in everyday about 5:30 AM, and would get off around 2 - 2:30, 3 o clock PM Uh, about everyday

Officer: Now this, this particular day May the 5th, do you remember when you, or about what time you got home?

Terry Hobbs: Roughly guessing, about 3 - 3:30, something like that

Officer: And was anybody home when you got there?

Terry Hobbs: Pam and Amanda was home

Officer: Ok, umm, did you, did you see Stevie anywhere?

Terry Hobbs: I did not, he wasn't there

Officer: Do you know where he was at?

Terry Hobbs: When I walked in, I always checked on the kids and I didn't see Stevie so I asked Pam uh, where's Stevie and she said he went off to ride his bicycle with Michael Moore. His bicycle which his grandparents had just bought him prior to that day.

Officer: What uh, if you can remember, what kind of day had that day been for you? I mean was it uhh, anything about the day that stood out to that point?

Terry Hobbs: No, uh, just another working day getting home from work, Pam was cooking supper.

Officer: Anything unusual when you got home at all?

Terry Hobbs: Nothing other than Stevie wasn't home and I always wanted to know where the kids is at, that's why I asked her

Officer: Do you remember what Amanda was doing at that time or

Terry Hobbs: Seems like she was in Stevie's bedroom watching TV

Officer: Nobody, just, nobody else in the house other than you and Pam and Amanda?

Terry Hobbs: Right

Officer: K, did anybody come over while you were home, after you got in

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: No, Umm, do you, did Pam work that particular day?

Terry Hobbs: She did

Officer: Do you know what her hours were?

Terry Hobbs: I think from 5 till 9, or closing, whatever time they closed. Might have been 10, but seemed like it was 9

Officer: How many, how many different vehicles did you own at that time

Terry Hobbs: I know of 2 but it could have been 3 because I liked to work on old trucks, and I had, I believe I had one at that time. I like to restore trucks and sell em.

Officer: Uh hmm

Terry Hobbs: I think I had one, I know we had 2 vehicles

Officer: The other 2 ones that you drove?

Terry Hobbs: Correct

Officer: And do you remember what they were?

Terry Hobbs: No, not really, No not really

Officer: Did both you and Pam drive daily?

Terry Hobbs: Yes, I had drove one to work. Trying to think of what I drove to work. It was a long time ago

Officer: Sure

Terry Hobbs: We had a Lebron, a little Chrysler Lebron, uhh we bought from City motors here in West Memphis. That might have been what I was driving to town


Part 2

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Terry Hobbs: Umm, Umm, Maybe blue

Officer: K

Terry Hobbs: I'm just guessing

Officer: Now umm, this particular day, the 5th, uhh, do you remember what time Pam left for work?

Terry Hobbs: We came, when I got home and seen Stevie wasn't there, she told me he had, he was suppose to be home by 4:30. So from the time I got home she was cooking supper and I would walk out to the driveway to see if I could see him coming down the road on his bicycle cuz he was proud of his new bike and I didn't see him, so from, we waited around and she had to be at work by 5 and you know I would go in and out of the house to see if I could see him coming because i had to take her to work. And you know, you just don't want to leave the kids at home by thereselves, well we didn't. And he wasn't he didn't show up

Officer: Is there any particular reason you had to take Pam to work?

Terry Hobbs: I don't know if there's a particular reason, I just did it, just the way we did things

Officer: Ok, and

Terry Hobbs; I'd take her to work and pick her up from work

Officer: Ok, Ok, so who all went when you took Pam to work, who all went?

Terry Hobbs: I drove, Pam went with me and Amanda

Officer: Ok, Umm, Let me back up for just a second. During this time period 1993, up to say from the beginning of 93 up to the 5th of May, umm, describe your marriage with Pam. How, what, how was your marriage? How would you describe it?

Terry Hobbs: Coulda been better, we'd had some. Pam had problems with staying faithful. She really did and that got me but she had uh something, she was working at poncho's one time down here and we had pool parties every once in awhile and some of the people from Poncho's would come over and one night I come in there after one of our pool parties we didn't want the drunk people to drive so we just, fall out wherever you laid is where you woke up at. Well one night we get up, looking through the house making sure everybody is ok and Pam is standing there wrapped up in the arms of a Mexican. His name is Jessie and he worked at Poncho's with Pam.

Terry Hobbs: Well i whooped the dog outta Jesse, it probably wasn't right but I did, and but you know that, that happened, and that was so I'm not going to say we had the perfect marriage, but that did happen during, before all that happened. But uh, we had a pretty good marriage I thought. But Pam just did some things you shouldn't

Officer: What room where they in when you said

Terry Hobbs: The kitchen

Officer: The kitchen

Terry Hobbs: Uh Huh

Officer: Ok, umm, now umm, any other problems that come to mind as far as your marriage at all during that time, prior to the 5th of May, obviously/

Terry Hobbs: Not really, other than her family, you know when I met Pam in that restaurant, then she asked me to marry her. Her dad let me know right off the bat, your not gotta to make her happy your gotta make me happy and I kinda thought, well that's kinda odd, you know, I'm not marrying you, I'm marrying your girl.

Officer: Uh Hmm, k

Terry Hobbs: but it was uh, that statement was made and I don't know, nothing bad that I can think of had happened.You know other than I'd seen the son in laws beat up from the dad and the brother from when the girls would call home crying to dad or mom, my husband did this and the dad and brother would go over and beat em up. And I just thought, well I don't want that to happen to me so I just tried to stay away from them.

Officer: Did you and Pam ever have any kind of physical confrontations at all during the part of your marriage.

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: No, Ok

Terry Hobbs: Not that I can think of

Officer: Umm, ya as far as the as far as the children, umm, as far as Stevie and Amanda, uh, discipline, who, did either or both of you discipline the kids when they did wrong?

Terry Hobbs: We would, sure

Officer: Both of you

*Note: I'm not exactly sure what he says here but sounds like, well not the dole team?? Maybe someone can clarify that.

Terry: Well not the dole team?

Officer: No, no well that's not what I'm saying, I'm just saying were both of you, did both, how did you discipline your children?

Terry Hobbs: With a belt

Officer: K

Terry Hobbs: Or make them stand in a corner, and or ground them, take something away that they liked. Stevie liked Nintendo games. So we would bar him from the Nintendo, or bar him from riding his bicycle.

Officer: What about Pam, how did she discipline the kids?

Terry Hobbs: When she would, yell at em, well yell, not mean yell but just being a mom that left it up to dad most times but she would whoop em, you know on occasions.

Officer: Umm, so I guess from the two of you who was the bigger disciplinarian?

Terry Hobbs; Dad, me - "chuckle's"

Officer: Ok, uh, was there anything in particular uh that you can remember that Stevie was you know into, i'm just saying its an 8 year little old boy, typical 8 year old little boy. Is there any anything that he was really into at that time as far as some stuff he really liked?

Terry Hobbs: Well he thought, he liked watching Ninja Turtles

Officer: Uh hmm

Terry Hobbs: On TV, and he would get out there and think that he was Bruce Lee. You know, doing his karate and back flips, and he liked the swimming pool. And we had the house and a nice swimming pool in the backyard, and he enjoyed that. And he got into ah the boy scouts. You know he won that race that year with them little cars that they had to make.

Officer: oh, Soap Box derby?

Terry Hobbs: yea, he, he won that race that year.

Officer: Did he really?

Terry Hobbs: Yeah, yep

Officer: Umm, Now, Stevie's friends. Did he have any friends that he was particularly close to or hung out with more?

Terry Hobbs: I would say a boy named George. I don't know his last name. At the time there was George and Michael and Chris, yeah. And then we had some friends lived a couple streets over and we'd go over there and of course they'd had uh the girls a little bit older than Stevie was at the time, but he had a little crush on her I think, or she mighta had a crush on him.

Officer: What, do you remember the name of those people?

Terry Hobbs: Yeah, David and Bobby Jacoby.

Officer: Jacoby

Terry Hobbs: Nods

Officer: What street did they live on?

Terry Hobbs: From where we lived you get on McCauley. One or two streets over, I don't know the name of the street. But we go, I got David a job with me one time, he run out of work so they put him to work over where I was working at the ice cream company. Kinda help him out and we'd play guitars together and so, you know Pam knew him from Blytheville. That's how I met him.

Officer: Oh, Ok

Terry: Yeah, I didn't really know him but we met him through her and when I got him the job where I worked at they was kinda struggling. So I just tried to be nice and help em out.

Officer: Where are you originally from?

Terry Hobbs: Cave City Arkansas

Officer: Cave City

Terry Hobbs: Yep *Note: don't understand what he says here, something about CCA

Officer: Umm, what about Pam, where's she

Terry Hobbs: From Blytheville

Officer: From Blytheville

Terry Hobbs: *note, don't really understand what he says but says something before he says Missouri

Officer: K, Umm Did, did Stevie ever have any, any friends come over and you know, spend the night, sleep over or anything like that?

Terry Hobbs: He did. I'm just trying to think, uhh, Michael may have came, I'm not sure cause it's been awhile.

Officer: Sure, certainly

Terry Hobbs: Yeah, but I, seems like there was some kids come over. I can't remember. George might have. This little boy named George.

Officer: You ever remember uh Stevie going to spend the night at anybody else's house?

Terry Hobbs: His grandparents a lot. Uhh, maybe his Aunt's and Uncles on Pam's side of the family. Uh, I don't know about in West Memphis though. I don't think so. It's possible but I cant remember that one.

Officer: Do you all remember when you moved to West Memphis?

Terry Hobbs: 86 or 87 sometime in there when that tornado had come through here.

Officer: Uh hmm, Did you all move here before or after the tornado?

Terry Hobbs: After

Officer: Afterwards

Terry Hobbs: uh hmm

Officer: Ok


Part 3

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Officer: Going back to May the 5th, you said before, correct me if I'm wrong, ok, please. Umm, you said that you took Pam to work at Catfish Island.

Terry Hobbs: Nods

Officer: Ok, who went with you when you took her?

Terry Hobbs: Amanda

Officer: Ok, ummm, and when you dropped Pam off at work
where did you and Amanda go from there?

Terry Hobbs: On our way to take Pam to work. Well after I got home if you remember, Pam told me that when I asked where's Stevie at, she said he's riding his bicycle with Michael Moore. So on our way to take her to work we went by the Moore's house to see if Stevie was there or if Mike was there. Dawn was there, and uh she told us that, you know they're riding their bicycles. So, you know me and Pam decided to take Pam to work and I'd go back and I had Amanda with me. We'd go back and try to find em. And when we left Catfish Island, uh, we went back by the Moore's house and just uh started going street to street in the neighbourhood to see if we could find them.

Officer: and did, and you said that you went back, did you talk to Mr/Mrs. Moore?

Terry Hobbs: Pause, no cuz i don't think Dawn, or Dana was home at the time. Dawn was, you know we did talk to her, you know we asked her is Stevie or Mike here when I took Pam to work.

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: And when I come back you know I didn't see any change, no bicycles in the front yard so we just drove around from street to street in the neighbourhood, seeing if we could see em.

Officer: You and?

Terry Hobbs: Amanda

Officer: Amanda, Ok

Officer: Umm, how long did you do that?

Terry Hobbs: Probably 30 minutes and I went Uhhh, maybe an hour I don't know about the time exactly but after we went back to see if we could find them in the neighbourhood, me and Amanda. I took Amanda to, well we both went home and I said, come on, we'll go walk around the neighbourhood and see if we can hear em behind them fences in somebody's yard, because I didn't know where George lived, which is one of his little friends. And, but we was gonna see if we could hear em playing behind the fences, the privacy fences. So we did that for awhile, and we didn't see em. We went back to our house and, um, we hadn't been there very long and Dana pulled up and asked if Michael was at our house and I told her I said no, but they're suppose to be at your house . She said I just left my house and they're not and I'm looking for em and I said well we've been looking for em

Officer: Did she, did uh, did Miss Moore say if the boys had ever been to her house that afternoon? Or?

Terry Hobbs: She didn't, I don't think she said that, but you know I told her I said, there was, they were suppose to be at your house so we went by there on our way to work, to take Pam to work and then we come back by and didn't see no bikes, so we walked around and then here we are, we're fixing to drive around some more, we're heading back to your house. And she said, well I'm heading to my house cuz Dawn was there, and I said we'll follow you over there.

Officer: Who is Dawn?

Terry Hobbs: Dawn's their daughter.

Officer: Their daughter?

Terry Hobbs: Nods

Officer: How old was she at time? Best guess.

Terry Hobbs: 6.

Officer: 6 years old?

Terry Hobbs: No, no she was older than Stevie. I think she was 10 maybe 11.

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: Just guessing

Officer: What about Mr. Moore, did you ever talk to him that afternoon or evening?

Terry Hobbs: No. He was truck driving, somewhere, working.

Officer: Ok, Ummm, Ok so *clears throat* After you talked to uh Miss Moore, she comes by your house and tells you that she's, she's looking for em, looking for the boys to. At this time do you know anything about Christopher Byers.

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: Ok, umm, so what, what do you do after you talk to Miss Moore?

Terry Hobbs: She says she's going to her house and I say, well I'm coming over there to. And, cuz we went over there and Dawn was still there and Dawn said she em go this way on their bicycles. So, uh while we're standing there in the front yard talking, here comes a big burly looking dude walking across the street and I look at him and I say, who's that? and of course that's Mark Byers. That's when I first met Mark Byers

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: He was,looked like the Shaggy D.A., don't quote that "laugh" But he comes across the street and he says, have you all seen Chris? And we said No, but have you seen Michael and Stevie "No"

Terry Hobbs: Uh, I think right then is when we put together that they might have been together...... at that time.


Officer: What when uhh when Dawn Moore says that she saw them going up the street did she say who all she saw?

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: but she said they were on their bikes?

Terry Hobbs: Cuz Dana said, she asked her when she got there, you know has Michael been home, has he called, something like that. And is Stevie with him? Something like that ahh and Mark come walking across the street saying, you all seen Christopher. And I think right then is when we all figured out that they might have all three been together.

Officer: And you never met Mark Byers before that day?

Terry Hobbs: NO

Officer: Ok, what, what happens and you, you still have Amanda with you?

Terry Hobbs: Correct

Officer: Ok, what happens then?

Terry Hobbs: I, I believe I drive around a little bit more looking for them and then go back to David and Bobby's house and I drop Amanda off there and I asked David, I said will you go help me, you know, try to find these boys. He said, come on lets go, cuz he knew Stevie up in Blytheville, he knew Pam's first husband, and he knew Pam most of her life or all of her life. And so working with him, he seems like a pretty good guy, he looks like a ZZ Top, he had long hair, long beard *chuckle* and so, and he went with me, we drove around. He was with me probably 2-3 o-clock in the morning, may the 6th.

Officer: When did you see Pam again?

Terry: When I picked her up from work.

Officer: Can you remember about what time that was?

Terry Hobbs: It was right at 9 o-clock.

Officer: Ok, and when you went to pick her up who all was with you?

Terry Hobbs: Amanda

Officer: Just Amanda, k

Terry Hobbs: Ok, I had picked her up, yea cuz I had her with me so I picked Pam up.

Officer: When you met Pam uh at, at her job. What was the first thing you all talked about?

Terry Hobbs: Pam, like every other night come out of the, uh, the building with 2 pieces of candy, one for Amanda and one for Stevie. She came out that night with 2 pieces of candy and she asked where's Stevie? I said Pam we haven't been able to find him yet, and she says, he's dead. And I said, Pam don't say that!, cuz who would think that? I was getting nervous, a little bit before I picked Pam up cause it's started getting dark, and when your kids is out there after dark, well as a parent you know you get them things. But, first thing Pam said was he's dead and I said, don't say that.

Pam: He is

Terry Hobbs: and I say, how do you, what makes you say that? You know? I don't know why she said that? But she said that.

Officer: Do you know who uh, who was the first family or the first ones to call the police on this?

Terry Hobbs: I know when we's at a Dana's house when we I first met Mark we said right then we was gonna call the police. But I thought I called them before that? And, I can't remember, but it seemed like I did, but I ain't gonna sit here and say that.I, I'm just trying to think back.

Officer: Did you have a home phone at the time, would you have called from your home or ?

Terry Hobbs: Nooo, pay phone.

Officer: Pay phone?

Terry Hobbs: yea

Officer: Did you have a working home phone at that time?

Terry Hobbs: Sure

Officer: Did you, ok

Terry Hobbs: yes

Officer: Uhhh

Terry Hobbs: I mighta even called from there cuz i'm, I don't remember that, but I'm, I member when we's at the Moore's house and I met Mark, I member telling Dana cuz they both said they was gonna call the police and I told one of, I said, tell them Stevie ain't here too. So I think, I didn't call, I didn't make that call right then but I mentioned that to Dana.

Officer: Ok so


Part 4

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Officer: After you have gotten and picked up Pam at work, where do you all go? What happens then, I guess?

Terry Hobbs: I think we go by the house first, or we mighta went to Robinhood first. Over in the wooded area where someone, you know, the last people that we talked to said they'd seen em go in Robinhood area. We didn't know there was a Robinhood area there.

Officer: who did you talk to that said they'd seen em, the boys go in there?

Terry Hobbs: Some of the neighbours, cuz there was a lot of people out there, you know, we was going door to door asking, you seen three little boys? someone said they'd think, seen em go in Robinhood around the time some show come on. So you know from that, seemed like from that time on we just couldn't let go of Robinhood.

Officer: What, what did you know of Robinhood hills of that day?

Terry Hobbs: Didn't know a thing about it.

Officer: You ever heard about it before that day?

Terry Hobbs: Not a thing.

Officer: Umm

Terry Hobbs: When we got out there I just thought I can't see our boys coming out here, cuz what it looked like.

Officer: What did it, describe for me what it, what you remember it looked like.

Terry Hobbs: Like a Jungle. Looked like something that grown ups would go in, not kids, and just trails through *stumbles* the wooded area. You know, and ditches of water back there that, I couldn't see 8 year old boys hanging around.

Officer: So you, I take it you went in, into this wooded area?

Terry Hobbs: uh huh

Officer: Who all, do you remember who all went into that wooded area during the time that you were there?

Terry Hobbs: I know when the police were called Regina come out and she went in with us a little ways and turned around and come back out cuz it, it was hot, it was muggy and it was growed up and it was full of mosquito's and, and I was getting mosquito bite and so and I believe it was starting becoming shift change and Regina told us that she's gonna pass it on down there to the police that all this was going on out here, but there was a lot of people.

Officer: Regina? Is that, that a police officer?

Terry Hobbs: Nods, Regina Meeks

Officer: Ok, ok

Terry Hobbs: There was a lot of people out there, going through them woods.

Officer: Do you remember, if you could tell me as many people as you can remember by name?

Terry Hobbs: David

Officer: Jacoby?

Terry Hobbs: uh huh, I didn't know anybody else.

Officer: Did Pam go into the woods?

Terry Hobbs: Not until I picked her up, we went in together.

Officer: Did you go into the woods before you picked up Pam?

Terry Hobbs: Sure

Officer: You did,

Terry Hobbs: nods yes

Officer: You remember about what time that was?

Terry Hobbs: 6 - 6:30

Officer: K, who was with you at that time?

Terry Hobbs: David

Officer: David Jacoby. Anybody else?

Terry Hobbs: Just a lot of neighbourhood people. Cause there was people on 3 wheelers, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, bicycles, on foot. That was you know, help calling, us, helping us look for 3 kids.

Officer: Is there anything that you saw that you uhh, was it daylight or dark when you all went out there the first time?

Terry Hobbs: Daylight

Officer: Daylight? Was there anything out there that that struck you as unusual or odd that you saw?

Terry Hobbs: Nothing other than I wouldn't have been out here, this is not a place I hang out, No. And we were told at one time that there was something that covered up a hole or something and they thought they mighta been in that hole so some of them little kids that knew where that place was at said that they'd go check it. I think uhh, that little Byers boy. The one that was alive. There's another one alive. I can't think of his name, but I think he was gonna go with some of the people that was there and check, but I don't know what they's talking about.

Officer: Was that suppose to be out there in the wooded area also?

Terry Hobbs: Uhh hmm

Officer: Ok, Ok. Umm, so when you, how long you think you stayed out there in the wooded area the first time? Robinhood area?

Terry Hobbs: I don't know cause we would drive around looking and then go down the service road looking up in there and walk in out there from both sides.

Officer: Did you see anybody uh hanging around that area that, that. Well you said that people were looking, I mean, if you had, your best guess I guess Terry umm. How many people do you, your best estimate of how many people do you during this first time your out there do you think are out in that area looking?

Terry Hobbs: 20 to 40

Officer: 20 to 40, ok so that's a good number, that's a large amount of people

Terry Hobbs: uh hmmm

Officer: Umm, were any of them police officers at that time? Or were they just citizens?

Terry Hobbs: Just Regina, and, after shift change another officer came out, but he aint go in the woods. He stayed in his car.

Officer: k, When you get done, is this the first time your out in the wooded area? Or the

Terry Hobbs: Probably

Officer: Ok, when you get, when you leave there, when. How long after you leave there did you go to pick up Pam?

Terry Hobbs: I picked Pam up at 9 o clock, uh, you know not only are we looking in the wooded area but people keep saying well there's 3 boys riding a bike over here, we seen 3 boys over here, someone said 3 boys so we would go everywhere we heard

Six seconds of silence

Terry Hobbs: I know I did

Officer: Yep, yep

Terry Hobbs: I don't know what, you know there was a time I was in the woods I seen Mark and his wife Melissa drive down the service road, looking, you know looking in the woods.

Officer: When ahh, after you got Terry, did a, did you go straight back to the Robinhood area after you picked her up from work?

Terry Hobbs: Pam

Officer: uh, uh, sorry, Pam, uh excuse me

Terry Hobbs: Uh, I believe we did.

Officer: And did she go in the woods that time with you?

Terry Hobbs: Uh hmm

Oficer: Ok, where was Amanda?

Terry Hobbs: Probably at the Jacoby's, uh NO, you see, you see yea, it seems like we mighta took her back there

Officer: K

Terry Hobbs: Cause Pam wanted to go in the woods

Officer: At that time after you picked Pam up you go back to the Robinhood area. How many people are in the woods at that time?

Terry Hobbs: I know Pam called her dad, and her dad and her mom come down from Blytheville

Officer: uh hmm

Terry Hobbs: And they're with her some of that, now I can't tell you exactly what times but they're with her some of that night. Uh, most of the night a matter of fact, and uh. I don't know how many people at the time was with us because you know I, David was still with me and then Pam got with me, but Pam was also with her dad and mom that night.

Officer: K, lets move through the night all the way. Did you ever go back home during the night to McCauley?

Terry Hobbs: We did, so we could change clothes

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: Yep, Pam had her work uniform on and uh she wanted to go back and change so we did. And we, I mighta put a long sleeve on or something to keep the mosquito's off of us but or got bug spray was all we done, but I did take her by the house so she could change. Yeah

Officer: Did you all go back to the Robinhood area after you'd changed or after she changed?

Terry Hobbs: All night long

Officer: All night long,ok

Officer: Ummm, lets, lets move forward to daylight, on May 6th the next morning ok. Carry me through from daylight on through that day. Tell me what's, what's going on. What your doing, what you and Pam are doing.

Terry Hobbs: From daylight, uh Pam had made the statement to the police or somebody that her ex husband she thought done it, cause we couldn't find Stevie, and didn't know where they's at and she thought he mighta kidnapped Stevie. So they called him and he comes down the next morning. Uh, there's a guy, a bum walking down, crossing that bridge by catfish island on that street. Is that Missouri Street? Or 7th

Officer: Uh, at the time it was 7th street I believe where catfish island was located.

Terry Hobbs: Ok there's a bum walking on that street, and he's wet and looking terrible but he walks, follows, gets on the rail road tracks and starts going west.

Officer: You see this person?

Terry Hobbs: I see this guy

Officer: K, this a white male, black male?

Terry Hobbs: Black

Officer: Black Male


Part 5

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DaCcoihhmX0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DaCcoihhmX0&rel=0</a>


Officer: Umm, just give me a good physical description of him best you can. Bout how old he is and what he looks like.

Terry Hobbs: I'm not good at guessing the black folks age. But seemed like he had long locked hair. Uhh, just all raggedy looking clothes, maybe 40's age roughly guessing 30's, 40's for his age.

Officer: ok, ok umm

Terry Hobbs: But you know we noticed him, I noticed him especially because I, you know we're focused on Robinhood, he's coming from that area. And but he's noticeable, and you, that image sticks in your brain. But we spend the rest of the morning, after Daylight we go to the schools to see if they show up at school. Uh, we're still riding around, still walking around through Robinhood.

Officer: Who is we when your talking about we?

Terry Hobbs: Family, uh during the night uh you know we're out, in and out of Robinhood all during the night. Pam, her dad, myself, David. Up until David I asked David, I said you man you need, you gotta go home cause you gotta go to work in the morning. And uh, just friends, really not friends just family, yeah. It's really Me and David and her Dad, for awhile.

Officer: ok, now umm. You've said you've seen this, you saw this black male, umm, who was with you when you saw him?

Terry Hobbs: Pam was there, seems like she seen him. Steve, Pam's ex husband might have been in the area I'm not sure if he made it there yet, but uh, I don't know, be honest about it. He was somebody that just looked like a bum out here going on.

Officer: ok

Officer: Take us on through, just keep going with what you remember from that moment.

Terry Hobbs: Well after we go to the schools, we go back to Robinhood and, there's the media there, I think Ben Watson was the reporter at the time that was there. And, uh cause we had called, Mark had called search and rescue in Marion and they said they couldn't come until West Memphis Police Dept. had called them and said show up, you know come out here we got a problem. So you know we felt like we'd done what we knew to do. And, but the daylight comes rolling around; Mark and Melissa went home during the night and they showed back up daylight. And so we go to school and they don't show up and we go back out to Robinhood and there's the Media and they're broadcasting live and then wasn't to long after that here comes search and rescue. Here comes the police officers from everywhere and the morning goes on and they start the search and doing things. I'm watching, talking to some of them as they're going down the bayou in a little boat. And they tell me they're going to drain the bayou or something like that. But, I don't know? We spend the rest of the day still riding around, me and Pam, and her dad had to take his wife back to Blytheville to be with the kids up there. And while they were up there the next day while they're up there, uh, me and Pam's riding around. We go and get something to eat and we really couldn't eat. Uh, but we'd go somewhere and we'd hear somebody say they found 3 boys.
And they tell us its on that road by the apartments, over there.

Officer: Uh hmmm

Terry Hobbs: and so, we fly back over there, me and Pam and Joylene mighta been there with her at the time. Seems like she was but I'm not sure.

Officer: Joylene?

Terry Hobbs: Her sister

Officer: Pam's sister

Terry Hobbs: Yeah

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: Uhh, but seems like she mighta been, I'm not, don't quote me on that, but we get back over there and see the crime scene tape up there and we don't know what's going on but there's a lot of people there. We park our vehicle, we get out, we start running up to the tape and Pam faints. And,*crying* I help her get back to the car. Then I go up to the, I go up to the crime scene tape. Gary Gitchell's standing there. I pass Pam's husband, ex husband. He said, they won't let ya past the tape. And I said something to him, kept on walking. I get there and Gary Gitchell's standing there and I ask him have you found something? You know Gary. And I ask him, have y'all,what, what'd you find? And he said, 3 boys. He said, he said I think it's a homicide, or it looked like a homicide something like that. And I asked him I said why? He said it looked like they had been murdered. And I just fall to my knees and start crying. I looked back there at Pam, she's, they're trying to get her woke up. She's having a hard time. *silence* I don't know.

Officer: I'm going to change sides real quickly on this.

Officer: K

Silence

Officer: So you've talked to Gary Gitchell and he's told you what, what they found, and that they were treating it as a homicide, is that right?

Terry Hobbs: I guess. He just told me it looked like a homicide and looked like they'd been murdered.

Officer: Did you hear anything, where there a lot of people around there at that time?

Terry Hobbs: There was

Officer: Did you hear anybody say anything about it, any, any rumours circulating at that time that you remember hearing?

Terry Hobbs: Mmm

Officer: How long did you stay there? Did you stay there awhile or did you try to get Pam out of there or what did you do?

Terry Hobbs: Try and get Pam back to the house. Yeah cuz she'd fainted and we got her back to the car and then back to the house later. I don't know how long we was there.

Silence

Officer: Now, as far as Stevie, was there, did he have any. I guess for lack of a better term any prize possessions that he kept with him, anything that he wore, or kept in his pockets or anything that you would know of that you remember from back then? Anything, in the mind of an 8 year old anything that they might consider special

[Admin.]

Part 6

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/URwFum_LzY8&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/URwFum_LzY8&rel=0</a>


Terry Hobbs: Maybe ahh, his, I think he mighta had a Ninja Turtle watch, I'm just guessing but seem like I remember that. I don't know of anything else. Not, not at this time.

Officer: And, it's my understanding uh from when i was sitting down talking with Pam a couple days ago that, that you and Pam are now divorced.

Terry Hobbs: correct

Officer: You remember what year you divorced?

Terry Hobbs: 03, i think? I'm just guessing

Officer: Where was the divorce, where did you go to court on the divorce.

Terry Hobbs: Never had to go to court. I used an attorney in Osceola. I can't even think of his name at the moment. He was one of Brent's friends.

Officer: Brent?

Terry Hobbs: Davis

Officer: Oh, ok, ok Umm, so was this an uncontested divorce, was there?

Terry Hobbs: Yes it was

Officer: ok, umm, who filed?

Terry Hobbs: I did

Officer: You did? Under, what's grounds?

Terry Hobbs: All the abuse, the accusations, the threats, coming from Pam and that side of the family.

Officer: But what do you, you, kinda if you could, could you kind of explain that to us what your talking about?

Terry Hobbs: Uh Hmm. After this happened, for some reason, they, Pam and some of her family went around and started telling people. Terry Hobbs killed them kids. I don't know why they done this. Uh, so she'd convinced her brother Jackie Jr. Hicks that I'd killed them kids and he would make the threat, the remarks to me, I'm gonna kill you. If it hadn't been for dad I woulda killed you already. His daddy. I couldn't for the life of me understand why they would think on this line, but, and the abuse is them going around telling people I did it. The threats is coming from the family. The boy, the brother. Uh, that he gonna kill me for doing this. Which i didn't do this. But still yet, it took a toll on the Hicks family that I've never seen, and of course I've never been around anything like this so I didn't know what to expect. But I was seeing things that I just couldn't believe. You know going around and accusing everybody in West Memphis. We'd go down talk to the, and come down and talk to the police and Pam would call all peoples names she didn't know but still accuse them of it. So they'd go out and ask questions I guess. And, I just seen it take a toll on this family that I couldn't imagine, I couldn't understand.

Officer: Do you ever have any, any incidents with anybody in Pams family, any kind of physical confrontations anything after this happened?

Terry Hobbs: Sure. Me and Pam bought a home in Raleigh and Pam been, at the time, struggling with this. We just bought this home up there, we didn't know anybody up there but you know I bought it from one of the people at the ice cream company. One of the boys that the family that owned the ice cream company his girlfriend owned that home so we bought it from them. Financed it, financed it I believe through FHA. And Pam, Amanda would go ride her, you know we rode bicycles in the neighbourhood, and then Amanda had met some girls down the street, cuz she was in the *Note - incomprehensible* so instead of Pam going down there with her, I'd ask Pam why don't you ride down there, you know, they're girls. Uh, she wouldn't do it. So I'd ride down there and keep my eye on Amanda. We just lost one baby and we ain't gonna loose another. So I ride down there with Amanda. Keep my eye on her, cuz we didn't know. Uh, so she met these kids and I end up meeting their parents. Which was nothing to me, just parents. Well Pam had this thing in her mind I loved these women, these kid's parents, the women and all I was doing was keeping an eye on my daughter. And so this one particular day. Well really several days Pam would accuse me of, them of wanting me, as is a woman thing, or of me of wanting them. Which was nothing to it, uh, and this one certain day she just kept on and kept on and wanting to argue with me bout them kid's mother, and I kept trying to tell her Pam quite it, you know. You just making this stuff up and she tried the same thing here in West Memphis, whenever I caught her with that Mexican, she'd just automatically blow it off the wall, well you got a girlfriend over here. Well I didn't have a girlfriend over here, I didn't play that. Uhh, but uhh when we got over there it just started happening and just one day I looked at Pam and over and over just kept trying to tell her there's nothing to this, and shut it up, leave me alone. I'd go in another room and here she'd come in another room and just nagging on and I'm wanna, I looked at her and said, I'm gonna slap the dog outa you if you don't shut this up. Well I wasn't happy about saying that, but I told her that. And she kept on and so I'd go in another room and here she'd chase me in another room, say the same stuff. so we was sitting on the couch and Pam quit it. I tried my best to get her to quit and she wouldn't do it so I just reached over and back handed her. And I know I was wrong for that, but I didn't care. You know she, I tried to get her to quit, this went on for hours, not minutes, hours. And I did reach over across there and back handed her right in the mouth. And when I did she popped me upside the head and grabbed my car keys and threw them across the house. And grabbed her car keys gonna head out the door. So I just thought No, uh uh. And I grabbed her arm which had her keys in em, I was gonna throw hers over there to, kinda childish but it's just what was going through my mind. So I grabbed her, we wrestled over her keys and I, uh got her with my elbow when we was wrestling. She uh, that was the end of the fight when my elbow hit her. And she told everybody after that, that I broke her jaw. She called her family, and told them I broke her jaw. And I knew what that was gonna do. And it was gonna bring it down here. So I called the police in Memphis, this is, there's two recordings of me calling the police in Memphis. One before, just after the fight I called them and told them about the fight and what happened and what she done and they tell me that we can't send someone out there to wait on em, but when they get there uhh call us back and we'll send someone out there and I said Thank you. But,so we're talking about an hour, maybe a little longer to her brother, his wife, her dad and mom come knocking on our door. Shorter, bout an hour, hour and a half after that and they come in yelling at me cuz she's, you know, I slapped her. I aint gonna deny that and I hit her with my elbow, I aint gonna deny that. But, I aint beat her up like she told everybody, and I didn't break her jaw like she told everybody, I knew that. And after the fight me and Amanda, you know I felt bad about it, and there's my wife sitting there looking like this, all over nuttin. Uhh, so we made her ice packs, me and my daughter and gave em to her. To put on her jaws. And, she, her family showed up and her dad come in yelling at me. Brother come in looking at me. And so I seen a chance where I could get my telephone, and I grabbed my telephone and walked outside and called the police again. And tell them you know, I got some trouble out here you know, they're back, they're here. Uh, get me them people, send the police out here. And they said ok. I said well in the meantime I have a gun and I'm gonna load it and I'm gonna put it on me.


Part 7

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JT_9_X7_Z7g&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/JT_9_X7_Z7g&rel=0</a>


Terry Hobbs: So I did. And I had 357 magnum and I loaded it with hollow points.

Officer: Yea

Terry Hobbs: Umm, put it under my shirt and walked outside, had my phone, stood by my truck outside and waited for the police to get there.

Terry Hobbs: Uhh, their dad, and the, his son come out and looked at me. I'm standing out there by my truck, waiting on the police to get there. And walked back in the house and directed the boy come out there, Jackie Jr. Come walking out there, I'm standing by the, at the bed of my truck waiting on the police to get there, not saying nuttin to anybody. And he walks up to the side of my truck and he said, Terry man what happened? And then he reach over and grabs me by the back of my hair and starts pulling me backwards. And I've got my arm on the side of the bed of my pick up and I'm just hanging on, you know, like that, best I can, well he's a bigger boy. And I hang on until uh, I lose my grip. And then, I don't know what happened, after that. Uh, until I'm laying on the ground, I wake up. I'm thinking if I wasn't knocked out, I don't remember nutting else till I'm laying flat on the ground. He's got both his knee's on my back and he has my head twisted like this. And I'm thinking, this has got to quit, I pull my gun out, pointed it up in the air and pulled the trigger. But just so happened hit him. Uh, I didn't point it at him and shoot him. I's just gonna *uncomprehensible* I had a gun you know, so I coulda yelled it out sure. I just pointed it up in the air and pulled the trigger, it knocked him off of me. And then uh the ambulance showed up before the police did over there. But they came picked him up, and they put me through the ringer over there with that.

Officer: Ok, Umm, when was the last time that you and Pam actually lived together?

Terry Hobbs: Probably 05/06 cause she moved. She come back down here, or maybe 04, I'm not sure? O5/06 something like that. She come back down here and went to work at Super-Lo on Cotten and Pike and she lived with me for awhile. And, then she moved out and got an apartment on Cotten and Pike. And live there until she moved back to *?*

Officer: Was there any other occasion where she ,I guess when, before she moved out, was there any other run in with the police?

Terry Hobbs: Oh yea, several of them.

Officer: Any of them where you were arrested? During that time?

Terry Hobbs: "nodding" yea, thanks to Joylene. Pam's sister.

Officer: Was that the, the last time the two of you lived together, you and Pam?

Terry Hobbs: No, this was uhh, after my divorce and. I believe it was after my divorce, our divorce. And me and Pam had another separation. She took off to Blytheville and I called her up and I said if you going up there with John and Joylene don't you ever come back to my house again. So the next day she brings Joylene to my house. Joylene brings in a bag of weed and a bag of white powder and of course she had, I don't know this, she has it hidden on her. But, they bring the police, the Memphis Police with them ok. Uh, they come, they get inside, I had broke the key off in the, in the keyhole cause I didn't want them in our house. Cause I knew what these people or had done to me in the past and I didn't want them to come back and do it again. So I broke the key off and my daughter breaks in through the back door, Amanda. And I open, I see that she aint gonna quit so I open the door and let her in, she goes over and opens the other door and the police is out there and Pam and Joylene's out there. Well they come in the house and my daughter, I had half a joint, I aint gonna lie about this. I had half a joint on my tray under my china cabinet. Umm, my daughter runs strait to that and pulls it out and gives it to the police. Joylene walks to my bedroom and places that white bag of powder and white, and some marijuana on my dresser and goes back in the front and tells the police he's got drugs in his bedroom on his dresser. They run back there and find this and arrest me. And, Uhh on my way down there, well matter a fact as we're walking out of the house, on my, I'm handcuffed they put me in the police car. Amanda, Pam and Joylene standing on the patio, or carport. Pam and Joylene are yelling at the top of their lungs you killed Stevie, they're chanting this, you killed Stevie. They're saying it so loud and so many times that that police officer, well he gets me down there by the car, he says, he stops me and he says, "who's Stevie"? and I tell him a little bit of, about what happened over here.

Officer: Uh Hmmm

Terry Hobbs: And he said, well I'm gonna get you away from these women. I said, Please do *chuckle* and that's just the way that happened. But, I did get arrested for that. And they dropped that charge on me, over there. Now, I think they was probably gonna charge me for that white powder, I told them, I know nuttin about that and neither one of them bags are mine. But that one thing was mine. They went ahead, they went ahead and charged me for the weed I think, which came from her.

Officer: I'm gonna go through and show you some pictures and see if you can help me with this. Go through umm, see if you, see if you recognize these items ok? Uhhh, let me write this list out *mumbles*

Officer: Sheet number 1 here I'm gonna show you here, uhh there's a cigarette box and it looks like uhh, it looks like maybe some partial dentures.

Terry Hobbs: I had one that looked like that.

Officer: Do you still have it?

Terry Hobbs: No, Joylene and Pam took it and gave it to Damien's attorney's

Other Officer: Do you smoke Marlboro's?

Terry Hobbs: I, I did at the time.

Officer: K, Umm, this is a uhh, a more blown up picture, of, with the same set.

Terry Hobbs: This was made in Blytheville Arkansas by the, a dentist up there.

Officer: That look like

Terry Hobbs: That looks like mine, yeah

Officer: Would you uh, would you do me a favour and this is, uh, I mean I know you don't have them here in front of ya, all we have is a photograph, umm, when was the last time you remember seeing this?

Terry Hobbs: I had them on my file cabinet uhh, I don't know, probably, I'm just gonna guess now, 05/04 something like that. I don't really remember the date I seen that, but I do remember them taking one of my upper partials and doing that with them.

Officer: If you would umm, I've got this marked, I've got sheet one, sheet two, uhh just so we can show for the record we showed you this, would you sign and put your name and date/date on each sheet as we go through. And like I said today's date is June the 21st

Terry Hobbs: Can I write on here I looked at this?

Officer: Sure, I mean that, that's fine, I mean we're recording so it's showing that your looking at it, but ya that's fine.

Officer: That looks like the one you had, the upper partial?

Terry Hobbs: It does

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: Yeah

Officer: If you'd do the same on, on sheet two and then we'll go through and I wanna show you some other items and see if you can help us identify them.


Part 8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/i5EJ6MlKleE&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/i5EJ6MlKleE&rel=0</a>


Officer: Ok, take these, here I'll put them in numerical order.

Officer: I need to borrow my pen for just a second. Alright, lets start here with sheet 3. *Mumbling to himself*

Officer: Ok we'll go from this place here. Terry if you would uh, this one of our labelled sheet 3 ok.

Officer: And each item is numbered 1, 2 3, 4 and 5, they're knives.

Terry Hobbs: They're mine

Officer: k, lets start with number 1, uhh what can you tell me about knife number 1

Terry Hobbs: just a junkie knife

Officer: You remember where you got it?

Terry Hobbs: I had that so long I can't remember where I got it from.

Officer: ok, what about number 2

Terry Hobbs: I remember I had one when I was running my ice cream route, I found this one laying in the street, in Memphis

Officer: Number, knife number 3 right here, this one.

Terry Hobbs: I really don't remember where that one come from.

Officer: K, what about knife number 4

Terry Hobbs: Don't remember, it was a long time, I would find them on the ground somewhere and just pick em up and put em in a little box or something I had.

Officer: What about knife number 5, do you remember anything about that?

Terry Hobbs: Not really

Officer: ok

Terry Hobbs: But they all, they do look like my knives.

Officer: Ok, I said that's sheet 3, if you'd put there that you viewed those, uhh, sheet 3, numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5

Terry Hobbs: And these I guess are the ones Pam told me not long ago that they said I could have back.

Officer: Um, these are, these are photographs of some we have that were uhh, I believe were turned over to an attorney and has possession of them right now.

Terry Hobbs: Am I gonna get em back?

Officer: Sir

Terry Hobbs: You gonna get em back?

Officer: Do you, do I want you to get em back? No, No, I don't need em back, right now I mean if we need em, we would,there's a, there's a process we have to go through to get em. A legal process we'd have to go through to get em, ok

Terry Hobbs: They said I could have em.

Officer: Who said you could have em?

Terry Hobbs: Pam told me the attorneys said that

Officer: Well, umm, I'm not going to go into anything with that effect so far ok

Terry Hobbs: Ok

Officer: That may change, but so far no, but umm, they're, I mean they're locked up safely. They keep them right now from my understanding from what I've been told so.

Terry Hobbs: yeah

Officer: Lets move to sheet number 4 here and there's 2 items I've got marked 1 and 2 on this, a photograph, do you, do you recall these items?

Terry Hobbs: Uh UH, *nodding No* No I don't, I don't think so. Cuz I had, I do have pocket knives,and uhh different knives, but, I don't, *stumbling* cause I had some bigger than that and I don't know whatever happened to them, but uhh, I don't think I remember that.

Officer: Don't remember that knife and sheath.

Terry Hobbs: not with, not at the moment, no cause if I did I'd tell ya

Officer: K, k

Terry Hobbs: But that don't look like one of mine, *turns page around* No

Officer: k, you don't remember it though

Terry Hobbs: I don't remember that knife

Officer: if you would still sign that you viewed it, showing your not remembering anything, but just that you, that you don't remember owning that, a knife like that.

Terry Hobbs: Well them all the knives that I had, I didn't really take em out and look at them, just toss em in the drawer.

Terry Hobbs: It's like that one I found in on the street in Memphis. I just took it home and put it with the rest of them, wasn't nothing like I'd treasure.

Officer: This is just stuff you picked up along the way.

Officer: Now this is sheet number 5. And it's marked 1, 2, 3, and 4 as far as the items. Tell me what you remember about those if anything.

Terry Hobbs: This is mine

Officer: Ok, your pointing at what numbers?

Terry Hobbs: 2 and 3

Officer: 2 and 3, that's a knife and looks like a little sheath for it.

Terry Hobbs: uh huh

Officer: Alright

Terry Hobbs: Uh, 1, seemed like Jolyne and her boyfriend bought that for me, but that looks like one that I had, or Pam mighta bought me. And that one

Officer: Is that the, is this right up above that does this look like it's got 6 stars is that the cover for that, the box, top?

Terry Hobbs: Could be, could be

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: I think that come from Pams sister.

Officer: K, what about

Terry Hobbs: That's just an old junkie knife

Officer: What about number 4?

Terry Hobbs: It looks familiar. Yeah it looks familiar.

Officer: K, alright. Same thing, if you sign, date. And this is the next one, come to be the last sheet i'm going to show you.

Officer: Ok, Terry this is the last sheet number 6 and it's again marked 1, 2, 3 and 4. Would you look at the items on that and tell me if you recognize any of those.

Terry Hobbs: Hmm, yeah

Officer: Start with number 1, do you recognize it?

Terry Hobbs: it's all westone I had.

*Note, not sure of name brand of knife he said he had here, I just guessed. If someone know's please let me know.

Officer: What about number 2

Terry Hobbs: It kinda looks familiar

Officer: No uh, Now keep in mind to it's uh like a knife handle in a sheath. You know like a knife in a sheath black

Terry Hobbs: uh huh

Officer: uhh, a sheath with a clip on one side, uhh

Terry Hobbs: And that's the case that this come in

Officer: So 3 is yours

Terry Hobbs: 3 and 4

Officer: 3 and 4 and 4 is the black case that it, that 3 came in

Officer: ok, umm most of the knives that you had here that you recognized, that you, just for clarification, did you buy those knives most of those or did you?

Terry Hobbs: Some of them were gifts, but most, and some of them i found, and some of them i bought just cause I liked the way they looked, like this is one of them ones i like the way it looked

Officer: Number 3 on this one?

Terry Hobbs: Yeah

Officer: Ok

Terry Hobbs: But I never carried them.

Officer: That was, that was my next question that I was gonna ask, did you ever carry a pocket knife on you for any reason like for work or anything.

Terry Hobbs: No sir

Officer: K

Officer: Now let me ask you, I don't have anymore of these to show you, that was the last of those. Umm, let me ask you this Terry. Do you remember, uhh do you remember Stevie ever having a knife at all?

" 7 seconds later he says"

Terry Hobbs: I don't know if he got one at the boyscouts or not. He did go to boyscouts, but I don't think they gave him a pocket knife. But his real daddy may have given him one. Cause his grandaddy was real proud of him, he really liked that little boy. It's possible, I can't say yes or no to that. Not honeslty.

Officer: Would, so if he, he had one you wouldn't have known what it would have looked like or

Terry Hobbs: Well If I seen it I might recognize it but I can't place one at the moment.

Officer: Now did you ever keep any uhh of uh Stevie's personal possessions after, after their death, the boys were, were killed.

Terry Hobbs: Well I aint gonna say I kept them, we kept them in our home. Up until Pam would take of and she'd try to take some and I still have some pictures of him, sure.

Officer: You have any other personal items that you. We're talking about an 8 year old little boy here

Terry Hobbs: your right

Officer: as far as toys or any, any personal effects of his

Terry Hobbs: Not that I can think of.


Part 9:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MYjOTENDBsI&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/MYjOTENDBsI&rel=0</a>


Officer: Did Stevie ever mention to you, umm, or did you ever here through Pam of Stevie mentioning, of having any, any problems with older kids, or uhh, name any of the boys that you, uh, any of the other kids that you hadn't heard of before. Umm, you know prior to May the 5th.

Terry Hobbs: I haven't, I hadn't heard any. George, Chris and Mike is about the only 3 names I remember. Now, uh, Aaron. Seemed like he uh, or that Aaron Hutchinson boy. Seemed like that was one of his friends.

Officer: Where they the same age?

Terry Hobbs: I don't remember. I don't know how old Aaron is.

Officer: K

Terry Hobbs: But seemed like I remember hearing his name back then.

Officer: When, when you and Pam moved to uhh, to West Memphis. did you move to the house on south MaCauley. Is that the first house you were at, or did you live somewhere else?

Terry Hobbs: Now, if I remember right, we moved south of uhh, on south Avalon. Down in that area there was a house down there I don't remember the street, but that we were in, and then we moved over there behind Kentucky chicken, on Rose I think.

Officer: uh huh

Terry Hobbs: If I remember right there was a house there and then we moved past MaCauley, another house that way before MaCauley. 4 houses.

Officer: Were those all rental houses or

Terry Hobbs: They were.

Officer: K, and the house on Macauley, the South MaCauley, the last house you lived in here. Was that on south, was that a rental house?

Terry Hobbs: Don Campbells

Officer: Don Campbells was it, his rental house.

Terry Hobbs: Uh hmmm

Officer: Did you ever move anywhere else in West Memphis after that, after living at 16 - 1601 MaCauley or, what was it 16

Terry Hobbs: Whattya mean did I live anywhere

Officer: Did ya all live anywhere else in another location in West Memphis, other than, after South MaCauley, or after Macauley.

Terry Hobbs: No we moved

Officer: Moved?

Terry Hobbs: Moved to Blyethville

Officer: Ok, how uh, I guess how long after Stevie's death did you all move to Blytheville?

Terry Hobbs: A month or less

Officer: Terry uhh, umm, *turns to other officer* have you got any questions *asking other officer*

Other officer: no, not so far

Officer: Have you got, is there anything else that you can think of that we haven't gone over or we haven't asked you, or something that you remember through the years ummm that you might think be helpful to us, as any kind of follow up into this investigation.

Terry Hobbs: Well really I don't know what your investigating, uhh so I don't know how to answer that.

Officer: Well all i'm asking you is if there is anything that you feel might be, uhh, might be pertinent, or, or have some value uhh to this case at all. That we might forward to the prosecuting attorney if, if necessary, ummm

Terry Hobbs: I know I seen umm a picture, and I don't know if this means anything. I seen a picture that uh, Damien Echols sitting on my couch at my house with Chris and Mike, no Stevie and Mike, on each side of him, I think. Have you seen that?

Officer: Uh No sir I have not, where did you see that picture?

Terry Hobbs: Well I think Gary Gitchel had it and I don't know how he got it. And they said it was my couch, and I don't know, I don't remember that, now Of course I know we didn't know Damien Echols or none of them boys. But I don't know how, if that was our couch, that, that picture got tooken. But i've heard about this picture somewhere out here.

Officer: Did you know any of the

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: any of the 3 that uh were

Terry Hobbs: No

Officer: charged and ultimately convicted of this crime?

Terry Hobbs: No sir

Officer: Have you kept in touch with any of the other parents?

Terry Hobbs: Mark Byers

Officer: Mark, you still stay in touch with him?

Terry Hobbs: Uh hmm

Officer: Uh, I know his wife is deceased now, that correct?

Terry Hobbs: Melissa

Officer: What about

Terry Hobbs: He's remarried

Officer: He's remarried?

Terry Hobbs: Uh hmm

Officer: What about the uh, the Moore's?

Terry Hobbs: We've run across Dana and Todd up here at Walmart in West Memphis a few times after that and Todd's just hateful, mean, I guess he's still mad about all that. But at the same time Pam was accussing Todd of killing these kids and Todd kinda took that wrong. You know cause he was outa town working that night. But ya, we had some, a confrontation about that one time.

Officer: You and who?

Terry Hobbs: I thought Todd was gonna beat Pam up *chuckles* yeah, cuz he was mad because Pam was accussing him and Pam didn't know him.

Officer: You said that uhh. Just going to touch back again on this picture that you were talking aobut. You actually saw this photograph? Or did you just hear about it? YOu said the one with Damien and, and the two boys.

Terry Hobbs: Yeah, I've heard about it, but I don't remember if I've seen it, seems like I seen it somewhere.

Officer: You heard it from who?

Terry Hobbs: I don't, Mark?

Officer: Mark Byers

Terry Hobbs: Mark Byers, yeah. He said that someone's got this picture and it's of my couch, he said Gary Gitchel told him it was Terry's couch. Seems like Gary talked to me about that one time.

Officer: If we needed to get ahold of Mark Byers how can we do it

Officer: What's the best way to reach him?

Terry Hobbs: His cell or his home phone.

Officer: Ok, umm

Terry Hobbs: You don't have his number?

Officer: Well i'm trying to confirm, make sure that if your still in touch with him that you have, may have more updated information than we do.

Terry Hobbs: He's not my local person that i'd call. Uhh

Officer: Umm, if there's nothing else you have uh, umm then I think what we'll do is take an additional picture just against our good picture when you sat down to tack to the paper work and then we're done and get you outa here, but I do wanna tell you how much I appreciate your time, uhh, and your courage for coming in and going back through this with us. It's a tough thing to do, you know at best, but uhh.

Terry Hobbs: Well I don't know what Jolyne is up to, but she has, ever since her brother died and that was a sad thing the way all this had happened. She's constantly reminding Pam, that when Pam was still with me, that your still with the S.O.B that killed our brother, and I didn't kill her brother. But she,the rest of the whole family looked at it like I did, and we settled that, I thought we settled that in Memphis.

Officer: I do have one or two quick things, umm they were mentioning when we talked to them the other week about some kind of uhh, some kind of a contract with Dimension

Terry Hobbs: Films

Officer: Films, what uhh, what is that actually about?

Terry Hobbs: They're making a hollywood movie, they come down here and bought our rights, mine and Pam's rights, and, to make that movie. And, from what we've been hearing, it might not be a good movie.

Officer: What uh, you said they bought your rights

Terry Hobbs: We made a big mistake

Officer: What did they, what did they, what kind of an agreement did you come on as far as the rights?

Terry Hobbs: Life rights

Officer: Well I mean as far as, they offered you so much money I take it, what, what did you all settle on?

Terry Hobbs: 12 - 5

Officer: Each or

Terry Hobbs: Me and Pam

Officer: You each got $12,500?

Officer: Umm, there was one other thing. Ummm *thinking*

Terry Hobbs: She didn't, she didn't bring you the contract?

Officer: I've not sir, I've not seen the contract. It was mentioned in what we're talking earlier this week but i've not seen one, no sir.

Officer: Ummm

Other Officer: you was talking about that book that you was writing.

Officer: That's right

Other Officer: and you said that started back on the 5th of May and you've been going on.

Terry Hobbs: I've got one, yep, they wanna look at it and I won't let em. Ron Lax, the investigators wanna look at it and i won't let em. But I started this thing back May the 5th and just kept up with everything that's happened. Not everything, I've kept up with alot that's happened through the years.


Part 10:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oZy02evr2e0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oZy02evr2e0&rel=0</a>


Officer: Ok, umm is it something your hand writing or something your typing on a computer or ?

Terry Hobbs: Well I've hand written it and I have a writer who's wanting to put it in book form for me, cause one day i'm gonna put it on the market.

Officer: *nods* Ok, and you, you have that in your possession right now?

Terry Hobbs: uh hmmm

Officer: umm, if there's, I don't have any further questions, there ain't nothing else that I can think of at this time. Again Terry I wanna tell ya how much we appreciate you coming in. Like he's gonna do a digital picture of you to show, to put with this *incomprehensible" not intended for any body else ok, and we'll get you outa here, I say appreciate your time. I know this is, has been tough but I do have alot of respect for you actually coming in and talking to us and I can't tell ya how much I appreciate it.

Terry Hobbs: Your welcome

Officer: Alright, you're going to do the picture, i'm going to turn this off.

Other Officer: Alright

Officer: We just about done both sides. If you wanna do the picture lets get this gentleman out.

Other Officer: K, I guess you have to take the lens off, no wonder I couldn't see nothing, been a long week.

Terry Hobbs: yeah I bet

Other Officer: Like I said, Your sister in law, Phhhewww

Terry Hobbs: I know

Terry Hobbs: It's sad you know

Other Officer: Yeah

Terry Hobbs: You know I don't, I don't know what happened out there in the woods that night, or day, whenever. But for them to try to blame it on Mark, blame it on me, blame it on, and not, not let somebody rest from this

Other Officer: Yeah, Terry *shakes his hand* appreciate it man. Let me give you one of my cards, if you hear of anything or something like that, just holler back at us. If there's anything we can do for you, just let us *end, just mumbling from the hallway now*

[cgreer]

He sounds guilty........

[former member]

It's been a long time since my CJ and Pre-Law classes in college so I hope I spell Modus Operandi correctly. TH likes to attack people in front of the people who love them. He attacked his wife in front of her brother and then shot the brother. He attacked his children in front of Pam until she stepped up and made him stop. I think that was how Stevie was attacked, in front of his friends until one spoke up and took a punch to the mouth. Then the fight to the death was on. It was business as usual for him.

[bigT]

Terry Hobbs: Roughly guessing, about 3 - 3:30, something like that

Officer: Nobody, just, nobody else in the house other than you and Pam and Amanda?

Terry Hobbs: Right

Officer: K, did anybody come over while you were home, after you got in

Terry Hobbs: No

I felt this was strange since in DF intv Pam states that Terry got there after 4pm but TH concedes that CB must have left after Muppet Babies concluded at 4pm.

Officer: Ok, what, what happens and you, you still have Amanda with you?

Terry Hobbs: Correct

Officer: Ok, what happens then?

Terry Hobbs: I, I believe I drive around a little bit more looking for them and then go BACK to David and Bobby's house and I drop Amanda off there and I asked David, I said will you go help me, you know, try to find these boys. He said, come on lets go, cuz he knew Stevie up in Blytheville, he knew Pam's first husband, and he knew Pam most of her life or all of her life. And so working with him, he seems like a pretty good guy, he looks like a ZZ Top, he had long hair, long beard *chuckle* and so, and he went with me, we drove around. He was with me probably 2-3 o-clock in the morning, may the 6th.

This was really odd cuz TH was just describing his direct search after dropping off Pam at CI and he never mentions being at DJ's to begin with.                                                                                                                                                                                      

Terry Hobbs: 6 - 6:30

Officer: K, who was with you at that time?

Terry Hobbs: David

Officer: David Jacoby. Anybody else?

Terry Hobbs: Just a lot of neighbourhood people. Cause there was people on 3 wheelers, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, bicycles, on foot. That was you know, help calling, us, helping us look for 3 kids.

Officer: Is there anything that you saw that you uhh, was it daylight or dark when you all went out there the first time?

Terry Hobbs: Daylight

True that it was daylight but with all his so-called initial searching there was no way a search party was enlisted in that short a time period.      
                                                                                                                                                                          

Officer: Daylight? Was there anything out there that that struck you as unusual or odd that you saw?

Terry Hobbs: Nothing other than I wouldn't have been out here, this is not a place I hang out, No. And we were told at one time that there was something that covered up a hole or something and they thought they mighta been in that hole so some of them little kids that knew where that place was at said that they'd go check it. I think uhh, that little Byers boy. The one that was alive. There's another one alive. I can't think of his name, but I think he was gonna go with some of the people that was there and check, but I don't know what they's talking about.

Here IMO TH is insinuating that Ryan n buddies were there before it was dark.

Officer: Ok, Ok. Umm, so when you, how long you think you stayed out there in the wooded area the first time? Robinhood area?

Terry Hobbs: I don't know cause we would drive around looking and then go down the service road looking up in there and walk in out there from both sides.

Simple Q. asked to TH but he sidesteps and does not give time period number.Not even a guess-another deflection.

Officer: Did you see anybody uh hanging around that area that, that. Well you said that people were looking, I mean, if you had, your best guess I guess Terry umm. How many people do you, your best estimate of how many people do you during this first time your out there do you think are out in that area looking?

Terry Hobbs: 20 to 40

Officer: 20 to 40, ok so that's a good number, that's a large amount of people

Boy that's alot of alibis! Wonder how many JMB counted?                                                                                                                       

Officer: Umm, were any of them police officers at that time? Or were they just citizens?

Terry Hobbs: Just Regina, and, after shift change another officer came out, but he aint go in the woods. He stayed in his car.

Officer: k, When you get done, is this the first time your out in the wooded area? Or the

Terry Hobbs: Probably

It seems TH was trying to say Meeks was there (at that time) but then shields by mentioning shiftchange.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Officer: Ok, when you get, when you leave there, when. How long after you leave there did you go to pick up Pam?

Terry Hobbs: I picked Pam up at 9 o clock, uh, you know not only are we looking in the wooded area but people keep saying well there's 3 boys riding a bike over here, we seen 3 boys over here, someone said 3 boys so we would go everywhere we heard

Six seconds of silence

Here TH is asked for another time elapsed # and TH deflects again and does not give one.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

Officer: When ahh, after you got Terry, did a, did you go straight back to the Robinhood area after you picked her up from work?

Terry Hobbs: Pam

Officer: uh, uh, sorry, Pam, uh excuse me

Terry Hobbs: Uh, I believe we did.

Officer: And did she go in the woods that time with you?

Terry Hobbs: Uh hmm

Oficer: Ok, where was Amanda?

Terry Hobbs: Probably at the Jacoby's, uh NO, you see, you see yea, it seems like we mighta took her back there.

Here TH is giving a "cover-all answer"cuz according to Pam she walks to DJ's who then gives her a ride to search.                                                                                                 

Officer: At that time after you picked Pam up you go back to the Robinhood area. How many people are in the woods at that time?

Terry Hobbs: I know Pam called her dad, and her dad and her mom come down from Blytheville

Officer: uh hmm

Terry Hobbs: And they're with her some of that, now I can't tell you exactly what times but they're with her some of that night. Uh, most of the night a matter of fact, and uh. I don't know how many people at the time was with us because you know I, David was still with me and then Pam got with me, but Pam was also with her dad and mom that night.

Again TH is being totally non-specific so he cant be held to a timeperiod of being alone.I dont know where or when Pam called her parents-CI-her house-or from the jacoby's.Paid has an estimate of when Pam and TH left the CI but it would have taken her parents between 1 to 1.5 hours to get there and pam would have had to meet them somewhere.

This whole account from TH is riddled with red flags.And the only specific times from a clock he gives is 3:30, 5pm, 6-6:30, and 9pm that I saw.And of course since this WMP intv. his accounts and details have changed here and there.Sorry this abridged summary is so long friends.I was hoping I could make some sense out of the snippets for myself. Hope its not too convoluted-still trying to learn how to make my posts reader-friendly.

[Admin.]

...still trying to learn how to make my posts reader-friendly.

I tidied it up for you, BigT.

[Paid]

.Paid has an estimate of when Pam and TH left the CI but it would have taken her parents between 1 to 1.5 hours to get there and pam would have had to meet them somewhere.

   Pam claims to have called her dad from CI at about 9:30pm. 

  She has also commented that he and Pam's mother left Blytheville very soon afterward and got to WM in about an hour.   I would think that Pam met with them by about  11:00-11:15 pm.

   

[Rob]

Very nice analysis, BigT. -And these red flags are only the tip of the iceberg.

[Paid]

   I noticed this when I was putting together the "manhole theory":


Officer: Ok, uh, was there anything in particular uh that you can remember that Stevie was you know into, i'm just saying its an 8 year little old boy, typical 8 year old little boy. Is there any anything that he was really into at that time as far as some stuff he really liked?

Terry Hobbs: Well he thought, he liked watching Ninja Turtles


       I don't think Hobbs is saying that Stevie "thought he liked watching Ninja Turtles".   I think Hobbs started to say something else and then changed his mind (he does this a few other times during the interview).

    So....what could it have been?

   My guess would be... "Well he thought he was a Ninja Turtle".  (which might have been too much of a clue that the boys' played in the manholes...so Hobbs changed his statement in mid-sentence).



     

[hawkeye]

Paid, did you notice this one as well?  Page 636 in the Hobbs Deposition

16 Q Now, is -- was it unusual for Stevie
17 and his friends maybe there to get off and get
18 gone and miss meals or be late?
19 A No. I can't speak for his friends. I
20 speak for Stevie; but, no, we kept a tight rope
21 -- or keep up with him pretty good.

Could be just a phrase Terry often used or could be a slip as he was thinking back to the crime

[Paid]

  Yeah...what's really incriminating about that one is that he caught himself after the fact and changed his wording.

   I'm not sure an innocent parent would be so paranoid.

[bigT]

I've noticed that many times too Paid.He's done this alot since this interv.We all know that he's been coached and warned about using negative or violence related remarks.And he'd stop mid-sentence to adjust his responses.He's definitely a "natural" pro at keeping a path open from the corner.

[lilmsjayne]

It sound like Th has some things to hide. Most of his answers he seems to have to try to find an answer that will cover his own a** and has answered many of the questions in this interview differently than he did in the Depo. for the Dixie Chicks case.

[former member]

I think, watching this video, that there was a reason that this didn't have to go to court and that TH didn't appeal. If you notice, sometimes he does that classic liar look... and smirks some.... he is hiding information. All the while, IMO, he comes off as very arrogant and beligerent and not as someone who is wanting justice as much as he really was convinced he was going to get a whole lot of money. He is about money whether he admits to it or not. His actions admit to it.
Did you notice that he said he was a victim... just like when he shot his brother-in-law and when he attacked his wives... and when he talked about how Pam slept with Stevie instead of coming to her marriage bed. Personally, I wouldn't have wanted to sleep in the same house he was in. He is vulgar in his nature and a smart-ass who smiles when he has to try to not tell about the drugs he has done but then says it anyway. He is a braggart who doesn't even know how to keep his mouth shut. He knows what he shouldn't say, but then, he wants to tell it. He wants to be the big writer and big screen star when he is a nobody who was a smart ass and dropped out of school. I would love to see the school records that he doesn't remember. He conveniently doesn't remember and then causes a big curiousity rise. He is so foolish.
And, didn't he expect that it would be normal to be asked if he killed the little boys? Each parent was suspect. He shouldn't have felt that it was anything abnormal. And, he should be willing to try to find the truth. We all know that justice doesn't end in the court. Courts are very often wrong. We move slowly to the court of the last resort and even then it can still be wrong. I would want to knowmy self about my child.

[bigT]

Terry Hobbs: Probably 30 minutes and I went Uhhh, maybe an hour I don't know about the time exactly but after we went back to see if we could find them in the neighbourhood, me and Amanda. I took Amanda to, well we both went home and I said, come on, we'll go walk around the neighbourhood and see if we can hear em behind them fences in somebody's yard, because I didn't know where George lived, which is one of his little friends. And, but we was gonna see if we could hear em playing behind the fences, the privacy fences. So we did that for awhile, and we didn't see em. We went back to our house and, um, we hadn't been there very long and Dana pulled up and asked if Michael was at our house and I told her I said no, but they're suppose to be at your house . She said I just left my house and they're not and I'm looking for em and I said well we've been looking for em

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