The blood spots on the trail

[badfish_76]

If you do some research on luminol there are many natural substances that it will react with including certain PLANTS.

I have done this research before and have posted some interesting links many times in the past and I don't have it in me to do it all again when I have much more pressing things to do, but if you are interested in the luminol results I would recommend  doing the research because you will be amazed at all the things it can react to and how many of them could be found in any patch of woods.

[Paid]

     I don't know where these boys died, but this particular manhole has a lot of things going for it.

   It was close to the discovery site. The roughly troweled base is consistent with the scrape on Michael's shoulder. The depth is adequate to cause basilar skull fractures. Luminol reacted to something on the trail between it and the discovery site.  And it has a very obvious "cover" (the concrete top), which could have been what Hobbs was referring to in the WMPD interview:

"...we were told at one time that there was something that covered up a hole or something and they thought they mighta been in that hole"

   
      I think it's odd that Hobbs would focus on "something that covered up a hole" rather than the hole itself.

[hbj1960]

I agree with you Paid. I have worked with re bar and leaned on it and it left marks similar to those on Stevies leg. I remember when working with the city in Mammoth and cleaning storm drains in the 80's they used re bar for steps even at that time. I IMO wish they had looked into these manholes a lot closer THey may have found THe real perp. Hindsight is always 20/20 but with WMPD may still have 200/200.

[Tank]

Paid,
You posted an article from the paper before describing the WMPD searching manholes and finding some evidence.
We, of course, never found out what evidence may have been found.
Does anyone know if this particular manhole has ever been examined inside for evidence, by anyone?
Thanks again for the graphic showing the prox to the bloodied trail.
Every time I see it, and re-read your theories, the more I am convinced you are 100% right on!!
Thanks again for your great work!

[Larner]

Apparently there was a storage bunker of sorts used by utility workers to hold tools used in maintenance of the storm drain system in the area, and there was a wide culvert going under the freeway in which kids could have gone.  Bike tire marks were found by the latter.  It appears that the search of manholes didn't go beyond those two sites--had it done so at the time perhaps they would have solved the case THEN instead of letting it fester so in the public imagination.

[Paid]

You posted an article from the paper before describing the WMPD searching manholes and finding some evidence.
We, of course, never found out what evidence may have been found.
Does anyone know if this particular manhole has ever been examined inside for evidence, by anyone?

    There have been a couple of excursions into this particular manhole.  It hasn't been examined carefully to my knowledge.

    I'm also concerned that the drainage system and even the concrete unit itself has been modified since 1993.  Here's a photo comparing the same concrete unit from 1993 and 2008:

[hawkeye]

Paid,

Can you tell if the '93 version had a lid that could be opened or sealed and if so was it a traditional steel cover?  Also, how soundproof are these structures?  Would it be likely that someone calling out for help would be heard from this structure if it were sealed with a lid if they were not incapacitated?

[Paid]

   They all have removable lids.

    This particular manhole is 10-12 feet deep with about an 18 inch pipe running through the bottom.

    With or without the lid in place...it would be virtually sound-proof from anyone standing more than a few feet away.

[Paid]

Here are the three possibilities:

1...The boys were killed on the ditch bank and immediately submerged in the water.
2...The boys were killed elsewhere and later transported to the ditch in a vehicle.
3...The boys were killed within a short distance of the ditch and submerged at a later time.
   
   If the boys were killed on the ditch bank and immediately submerged....how do we explain the lack of foot-prints, no sign of struggle, lack of blood, animal hairs under the ligatures, wound patterns inconsistent with objects found at the scene or belonging to the convicted, fly larva in the eyes and nostrils of the victims, basilar skull fractures, posterior lividity, and land animal predation?
     
  If the boys were killed elsewhere and later transported by vehicle.....how do we explain the lack of vehicle tracks, the bikes being dumped in the bayou, the cause of death as drowning, and the lack of witness sightings of a vehicle in the field or behind the Blue Beacon (especially given the fact that Hobbs claims to have spent so much time in this small patch of woods)?
     
  If the boys were killed in the woods, their bodies hidden in a nearby manhole, and later submerged in the ditch... all of these "problems" are answered.  Add to that... the fact that Terry Hobbs, himself, has mentioned that the boys could have been hiding in a manhole within the woods (and more importantly..the very suspicious manner in which he provides this information which also tell us who committed these murders).

[RCKxx]

Paid is correct in that all the manholes around the discovery site as well as Weaver Elem. have removable lids; three of the four manholes I took pictures of around New Years at the discovery site, had the lids partially open...so the children may have never had to actually open or lift the lid to the(se) manholes.

And yes even without the lid being firmly closed, sound would not travel but a few feet from the manholes....if that...one would virtually have to be standing directly over the opening at the top to hear anything coming from inside the manhole....keep in mind also, that the volume of traffic on the Interstate would "mask" noise in that area also.

Paid,

Didn't the defense experts that testified at Jason and Jessie's Rule 37 hearings, generally concur that the murders/assault happened near the discovery site?  Also, didn't Douglas concur with this in his criminal profile analysis?

[Paid]

Didn't the defense experts that testified at Jason and Jessie's Rule 37 hearings, generally concur that the murders/assault happened near the discovery site?  Also, didn't Douglas concur with this in his criminal profile analysis?

  Douglas theorized that the murders occurred in the woods.

  The other defense experts indirectly conveyed that the woods were the primary crime-scene by describing the animals that are found in the area.

   I'm sure the overall consensus of the experts is that the boys died within the confines of the woods.

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