Text Version of the Hobbs Deposition

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  For the next 5 or 6 days I'll post the entire Hobbs Deposition in WordPad format so that excerpts can be discussed as we go. I'll try to post about 100 pages per day and about 50 pages per frame.

   We'll treat this like a read-along. Feel free to cut and paste excerpts for discussion or reference the page and line number.

   Episode #1 begins with questioning by Mr. Davison:


EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. DAVISON:
13 Q. State your name for the record, sir.
14 A. Terry Wayne Hobbs.
15 Q. Mr. Hobbs, you can put your hand down now.
16 Mr. Hobbs, my name is Dan Davison, and I
17 represent Natalie Pasdar in connection with the
18 lawsuit that you have brought against her. And
19 you understand that you’re here today to answer
20 questions?
21 A. I do.
22 Q. And you understand that you took an oath to
23 tell the truth and nothing but the truth,
24 correct?
25 A. I do.

Page 10
1 Q. And you understand, I assume, that the
2 testimony you give here today has the same force
3 and effect as though you were testifying in front
4 of a judge and a jury?
5 A. I do.
6 Q. All right. A couple of ground rules, Mr.
7 Hobbs, if we could before we kind of get started,
8 I think it’ll make the day go a little faster. I
9 will endeavor to ask questions that hopefully you
10 understand, but if I ask a question that you
11 don’t understand, if you would tell me that you
12 don’t understand it, I’ll try to rephrase it; is
13 that fair?
14 A. That sounds fair.
15 Q. And if you -- if you tell me that you don’t
16 understand it, I’m going to assume that you do
17 understand the question; is that a fair
18 assumption, sir?
19 A. It is.
20 Q. All right. I will also try to give you the
21 courtesy of letting you finish your answer before
22 I start my next question. If you would allow me
23 to -- allow me the same courtesy of letting me
24 finish my question before you start your answer;
25 does that make sense?

Page 11
1 A. It does.
2 Q. Because the court reporter has a hard time
3 taking down if both of us talk at the same time.
4 And she also have a very difficult time taking
5 down shakes of the head or uh-huhs or huh-uhs, so
6 if you could answer out loud verbally, that would
7 be helpful; is that agreeable, sir?
8 A. I agree.
9 Q. All right. Now, in Texas, you know, I -- I
10 certainly typically don’t have a problem being
11 heard, and I will try to speak up. I do know
12 sir, that you have a tendency to be soft-spoken
13 at times. So even though we’re on videotape, if
14 you would try to answer out loud, as forcefully
15 as you can, I think that’ll -- that’ll help both
16 the videographer, it’ll help Mr. Wellenberger who
17 is on the phone, and it’ll help the court
18 reporter; is that fair?
19 A. Sounds fair.
20 Q. All right. Mr. Hobbs, could you tell the
21 ladies and gentlemen of the jury why you sued my
22 client?
23 A. For her statements against me that she made
24 on the internet.
25 Q. Anything else?

Page 12
1 A. And her actions in the -- on the -- here in
2 Little Rock.
3 Q. That’s at the rally?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. All right. Any -- any other reasons that you
6 sued my client?
7 MR. THOMAS: I object to the extent
8 that that calls for a legal conclusion, because
9 it requires him to apply facts to the law.
10 Q. I’m just asking you, sir, for the reasons why
11 you filed a lawsuit against my client. You said
12 the letter on the internet and the rally.
13 Anything else?
14 MR. THOMAS: Continuing objection.
15 You go ahead and answer, Terry.
16 A. Probably -- or not probably -- for the -- all
17 the emotions, distress, the anger.
18 Q. That her statements caused you?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Well, they certainly weren’t things that you
21 had never heard before, is it?
22 A. No.
23 Q. As matter of fact, they are things that had
24 been said for years and years about you, isn’t
25 it?

Page 13
1 A. Some people say.
2 Q. Well, I mean, you said. You’ve said in press
3 releases and in the newspaper that these are
4 things that have been said time and time again
5 against you for years and years; isn’t that
6 right?
7 A. It is.
8 Q. As a matter of fact, you said you previously
9 testified -- not testified -- you’ve been quoted
10 in the newspapers as saying that the press was
11 out to get you for years, correct?
12 A. I’d have to see that quote.
13 Q. Well, that’s something that you’ve thought,
14 isn’t it, that the press has been out to get you
15 for years and years?
16 A. I had to -- no, I don’t think I thought that.
17 Q. Well, you filed a grievance against
18 Mr. Riordan, didn’t you?
19 A. I did.
20 Q. And who is Mr. Riordan?
21 A. He’s the defense attorney for Damien Echols.
22 Q. All right. And when did you file that
23 grievance against him?
24 A. I’m not sure of the date, but probably ’07,
25 ’08.

Page 14
1 Q. All right. And the reason for that is
2 because you think he’s out to get you?
3 A. No. I think their actions were out to get
4 me.
5 Q. Well, you said -- isn’t it true, Mr. Hobbs,
6 that from basically the time of the murder and
7 the convictions -- the murders and the trial and
8 the conviction and all the appeals that have gone
9 forward since that time, you’ve been -- you’ve at
10 least been at the center of this controversy
11 about who killed the boys and were the boys
12 wrongly convicted --
13 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a
14 legal conclusion.
15 Q. No, that hasn’t been a controversy?
16 A. No.
17 Q. What do you say that?
18 A. Why do you say that?
19 Q. Well, I get to ask the questions here, sir,
20 so --
21 A. Because it’s not a true statement.
22 Q. Okay. So there’s -- there hasn’t been an
23 ongoing controversy about whether or not the
24 West Memphis Three killed the three boys?
25 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for a

Page 15
1 legal conclusion. Do we need to make the regular
2 stipulations regarding reservation of objections
3 except as to form of the question? I don’t know
4 if y’all have a standard stipulation that you do
5 in Texas.
6 MR. DAVISON: We just take them by
7 the rules, that’s fine.
8 MR. THOMAS: Okay.
9 Q. Hasn’t there been there a controversy since
10 the convictions to whether or not the boy -- the
11 West Memphis Three were wrongfully convicted?
12 A. In some people’s mind.
13 Q. Okay. And -- well, there’s been national
14 press on the subject, hasn’t there?
15 A. There has.
16 Q. And there have been several books written on
17 the subject, hasn’t there?
18 A. A few.
19 Q. There have been shows on CNN about it, right?
20 A. There has.
21 Q. There’s been shows on Geraldo about it?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And there have been shows on America’s Most
24 Wanted about it?
25 A. There has.

Page 16
1 Q. In fact, you’ve been in all those shows,
2 haven’t you?
3 A. A part of them, uh-huh.
4 Q. That’s a yes, correct?
5 A. It is a yes.
6 Q. And that’s been since the time of the
7 convictions going forward to today, right, that
8 controversy?
9 MR. THOMAS: Object to the extent
10 that it calls for a legal conclusion.
11 Q. You get to still answer. He has to just make
12 objections to preserve them, but --
13 A. Can you repeat the question?
14 MR. DAVISON: Could you read the
15 question back, ma’am?
16 (Requested information was read.)
17 Q. Right?
18 A. I didn’t understand that question.
19 Q. All right. Well, the controversy of whether
20 or not the West Memphis Three actually killed the
21 three little boys and whether or not they were
22 wrongfully convicted, that’s been a controversy
23 from shortly after the verdict was returned until
24 we sit here today, right?
25 A. Correct, it has.

Page 17
1 MR. THOMAS: Continuing objection
2 that it calls for a legal conclusion. Mr. Hobbs
3 is not required to define what a public
4 controversy is or what a controversy is.
5 MR. DAVISON: Ted, we’re going to
6 take the deposition by the rules, which means you
7 get to say objection form, period. And then if
8 I think that I need any education about what the
9 objection is, then I’ll ask you, but we’re not
10 going to sit here for the rest of the day and
11 have you coach the witness. So I’d ask that you
12 follow the rules and basically say objection
13 form, or instruct the witness not to answer,
14 which is all the rules allow you to do.
15 MR. THOMAS: I’m permitted to state
16 the basis for the objection, and what I don’t
17 want you to do is come in and ask 50 questions
18 because I object to 49 of them and not 50 and
19 trying to say that waive the objection with
20 respect to the 50th question.
21 MR. DAVISON: You can object as to
22 form to all 50 questions.
23 MR. THOMAS: Continuing -- well,
24 then it’s going to be like that. Continuing
25 objection to the notion that Mr. Hobbs is

Page 18
1 required to define what is or isn’t a public
2 controversy, because that’s a legal concept, and
3 we’re here to take a factual deposition.
4 MR. DAVISON: Yes, we are.
5 Q. Isn’t it true, Mr. -- you wrote a journal,
6 did you not, Mr. Hobbs, from May the 5th, 1993
7 forward?
8 A. I have done a lot of writing.
9 Q. Well, you produced a four volume journal to
10 us, correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And in that journal, don’t you state that the
13 press is out to get you?
14 A. No.
15 Q. You don’t say that?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you think folks are out to get you?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Okay. Mr. Hobbs, how would you describe
20 yourself to the jury, as we sit here today?
21 A. As being a pretty good man.
22 Q. Okay. Well, tell me about yourself.
23 A. I am presently divorced from a marriage that
24 has been interrupted by the death of our child.
25 Q. And that’s from Pam Hobbs?

Page 19
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Okay. As you sit here today, what do you
3 think your reputation in the community is?
4 A. The people that know me like me.
5 Q. Okay. But generally, what -- if you had to
6 describe your reputation to folks, other than
7 just as good man, what else would it be?
8 A. Hard-working man, good dad, good husband in
9 the past, pretty good man.
10 Q. Are you an honest fellow?
11 A. I try my best.
12 Q. Law-abiding man?
13 A. I do pretty good at it.
14 Q. And that’s your reputation today?
15 A. Well, that’s -- some people might not think
16 so.
17 Q. Well, what people don’t think so?
18 A. Who knows.
19 Q. As we sit here today, do you know of anybody
20 that thinks otherwise of you?
21 A. Yeah. There’s people that has asked me
22 questions about all this stuff that shouldn’t
23 have never been.
24 Q. And that’s been going on for a long time,
25 hasn’t it?

Page 20
1 A. About the past couple of years.
2 Q. When do you first recall being asked those
3 sorts of questions?
4 A. What kind of questions?
5 Q. The questions you just said have been going
6 for the last couple of years?
7 A. People has come up and asked me, did you kill
8 some babies.
9 Q. Who asked you that?
10 A. Friends. People that don’t even know me. I
11 don’t even know them.
12 Q. And you were asked that question on CNN,
13 right?
14 A. Sure.
15 Q. When were you on CNN?
16 A. Roughly ’07, ’08.
17 Q. Was that before or after the DNA results?
18 A. After.
19 Q. Was it after?
20 A. I’m guessing after.
21 Q. Well, I don’t want you to guess. I mean,
22 that’s one of the things -- and I know Ted --
23 A. I don’t keep up with the dates.
24 Q. I know Ted doesn’t want you to guess.
25 A. I’m not keeping up with the dates.

Page 21
1 Q. So the first time you were ever asked if you
2 were -- if you had killed the three boys, it’s
3 your testimony it was after the DNA results?
4 A. Probably.
5 Q. When were you on Geraldo?
6 A. ’94 I think.
7 Q. When were you on Cooper 360?
8 A. ’08, ’07.
9 Q. Before or after the DNA?
10 A. After.
11 Q. Okay. And Larry King?
12 A. I didn’t do Larry King.
13 Q. Was it -- was it your daughter that did Larry
14 King?
15 A. It was.
16 Q. And when did she do Larry King?
17 A. ’07, ’08.
18 Q. Okay. Did you ask her to go on Larry King?
19 A. I advised her not to.
20 Q. Why did you advise her not to?
21 A. Because I don’t want my children drug into
22 this.
23 Q. What do you hope to get out of the lawsuit?
24 A. Justice.
25 Q. How do you define justice?

Page 22
1 A. In a court of law.
2 Q. You want money, don’t you?
3 A. I want justice as the Courts deem.
4 Q. You’re going to ask the Court to award you
5 money, right?
6 A. I ain’t asking for nothing.
7 Q. So you’re not going to ask the Court to award
8 you money?
9 A. Justice.
10 Q. That’s not my question. You’re going to
11 sit -- you’re going to get on the witness stand
12 and you’re going to ask the Court to award you
13 money?
14 A. I don’t -- no, I’m not asking for money.
15 Q. You’re not asking for money. Then what do
16 you -- how do you define justice?
17 A. Whatever the Court deems necessary.
18 Q. An apology, is that enough?
19 A. Whatever the Courts decide.
20 Q. No, I’m not asking -- I’m asking what you
21 want to get out of this lawsuit, Mr. Hobbs?
22 A. If I would sit here to be honest.
23 Q. Then that’s what -- I want you to be totally
24 honest.
25 A. I would sit here and say I’d like to see the

Page 23
1 Dixie Chicks humiliated like they have caused me.
2 I think that’s a little bit fair.
3 Q. Okay. So you want to humiliate the Dixie
4 Chicks. How would you do that?
5 A. Let the Courts decide.
6 Q. Why did -- why did you focus on the Dixie
7 Chicks? They’re not the only people -- as a
8 matter of fact, they’re not the first people that
9 made these allegations. Why are you focused on
10 the Dixie Chicks?
11 MR. THOMAS: Object to the extent
12 that it requires -- calls for a legal conclusion.
13 Q. Answer the question, sir.
14 A. Why am I focused on it, because they speak
15 the loudest.
16 Q. Louder than Larry King?
17 A. I didn’t do Larry King.
18 Q. Louder than Geraldo?
19 A. Geraldo never accused me.
20 Q. Louder than CNN?
21 A. They had questions.
22 Q. Okay. When did you first meet Mr. Hiland?
23 A. Mr. Hiland?
24 Q. Hiland, I’m sorry.
25 MR. DAVISON: I apologize, Cody.

Page 24
1 A. A year ago maybe.
2 Q. How did you meet him?
3 A. I was on a mission.
4 Q. What was your mission, Mr. Hobbs?
5 A. To find some attorneys to look at my
6 complaint and see if I had something worth
7 fighting for.
8 Q. How many lawyers did you have to go to?
9 A. I talked to several.
10 Q. How many?
11 A. I don’t keep up with it.
12 Q. More than -- more than one?
13 A. More than one.
14 Q. More than two?
15 A. More than two.
16 Q. More than 10?
17 A. Roughly. Probably.
18 Q. More than 15?
19 A. Probably not.
20 Q. More than 10 lawyers, and was Mr. -- was Cody
21 the only one that would take your case?
22 A. No. I had a few of them that said they would
23 like to do this.
24 Q. Who?
25 A. I don’t know their names. I don’t keep up

Page 25
1 with them.
2 Q. Do you keep any records of who you talked to?
3 A. I do, but I don’t have them on me.
4 Q. Well, as you sit here today, can you recall
5 any of the other 10 lawyers that you went to talk
6 to?
7 A. Chris C----------, I talked to him.
8 Q. Where is Chris?
9 A. He’s here in Little Rock somewhere, I
10 believe. He’s in Arkansas.
11 Q. Who else?
12 A. There’s some more in Arkansas, but I don’t
13 know their name. There was -- I don’t recall
14 their names.
15 Q. Okay. Any in Tennessee?
16 A. Sure.
17 Q. How many did you talk to in Tennessee?
18 A. I don’t know the number.
19 Q. Would that be in addition to the 10 that you
20 talked to here?
21 A. Probably be in the equation.
22 Q. Meaning they would be part of the 10?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Okay. When did you retain Cody to represent
25 you in this case?

Page 26
1 A. Roughly a year ago.
2 Q. Do you have a written fee agreement with him?
3 A. We do.
4 Q. What’s that agreement?
5 A. That’s --
6 MR. THOMAS: Objection, privileged.
7 MR. DAVISON: Are you instructing
8 him not to answer?
9 MR. THOMAS: Yes.
10 Q. You have this on -- your attorney has this on
11 a contingent fee basis, correct?
12 A. That’s our business.
13 Q. Your attorney has it on a contingency fee
14 basis, correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. That means he gets paid if you get paid,
17 right?
18 A. That’s part of it.
19 Q. All right. Who’s paying expenses?
20 A. Well, we’ve covered our own.
21 Q. So you’re paying all the expenses?
22 A. I paid my -- I’ve paid some.
23 Q. Who else has paid some?
24 A. Mr. Cody paid some.
25 Q. Anybody else paid some?

Page 27
1 A. Not that I’m aware of.
2 Q. Okay. How did you find Cody; did somebody
3 recommend him to you?
4 A. Someone did.
5 Q. Who recommended him to you?
6 A. Mr. Chris.
7 Q. Who is Mr. -- Mr. Chris is the lawyer here in
8 town?
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 Q. You have to answer out loud.
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. All right. And when did you meet Mr. Thomas?
13 A. I don’t know. A long time ago over the
14 phone.
15 Q. How long -- give me a time frame.
16 A. 10 years, 15 years, 12 years.
17 Q. What was the context in which you met Mr.
18 Thomas?
19 A. Just talking to him.
20 Q. Was it in conjunction with the West Memphis
21 Three?
22 A. Seemed like it was.
23 Q. What was the -- what was the circumstances in
24 which you met Mr. Thomas 10, 15 years ago?
25 A. I didn’t like the way some of the procedures

Page 28
1 happened the night of May the 5th, and I talked
2 to Mr. Ted about this.
3 Q. What procedures didn’t you like on the
4 night --
5 MR. THOMAS: Objection to the extent
6 that it calls for privileged communications.
7 MR. DAVISON: I’m not asking what he
8 talked to you about. I’m asking what procedures
9 he didn’t like.
10 Q. What police procedures didn’t you not like
11 the night of the May the 5th?
12 A. We were so desperately trying to get them to
13 help us search for our kids, and they would not.
14 Q. Is Mr. Thomas a criminal lawyer; do you know?
15 A. I’m not aware of that.
16 Q. Did you call him the night of the 5th, May
17 the 5th?
18 A. No, I did not.
19 Q. When did you call him -- how long after May
20 the 5th, 1993 did you first talk to Mr. Thomas?
21 A. I’m not sure.
22 Q. Well, I mean, was it hours, days, weeks,
23 months? Give me some sense, sir.
24 A. Months or years.
25 Q. Months or years. Do you know if it was ’93?

Page 29
1 A. Don’t know that.
2 Q. Do you know if it was before or after the
3 conviction?
4 A. Don’t know that.
5 Q. When was the first time you spoke with an
6 attorney about the events that occurred on May
7 the 5th, 1993?
8 A. I’m not sure.
9 Q. Did you speak with an attorney in ’93 about
10 that event?
11 A. Yes, I believe we did.
12 Q. Who did you speak with? I’m not asking what
13 you spoke about, I’m just asking who you spoke --
14 who you spoke with?
15 A. Seemed like it was Wayne Emans.
16 Q. Who is Mr. Emans?
17 A. He’s an attorney.
18 Q. Is Mr. Emans a criminal attorney?
19 A. He is.
20 Q. Why did you speak with a criminal attorney in
21 ’93 about the events about the murder of the
22 three little boys?
23 A. Not knowing who to talk to, we just called
24 someone up out of the phone book and talked to
25 him.

Page 30
1 Q. Was he your -- did you establish an
2 attorney/client relationship with him?
3 A. No, I did not.
4 Q. Okay. What did you speak with him about?
5 A. The night of the -- the procedures of the
6 night of May the 5th.
7 Q. What about the procedures on the night of May
8 the 5th?
9 A. He --
10 MR. THOMAS: Objection. It’s
11 privilege regardless of whether he knows or
12 doesn’t no whether they established a
13 relationship. If he talks to a lawyer, and it
14 has anything to do with any conceivable
15 representation, it’s privileged. I instruct him
16 not to answer.
17 MR. DAVISON: I disagree. He’s
18 testified, Ted, that there was no attorney/client
19 relationship established.
20 MR. THOMAS: He’s not a lawyer that
21 can -- that’s qualified to make that concession.
22 Q. Did you pay him any money?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you sign -- was there any sort of --
25 A. No.

Page 31
1 Q. -- retainer agreement signed, anything in
2 writing between you to?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. You just picked up the phone and called and
5 asked him some questions?
6 A. And went down and talked to him.
7 Q. Okay. Tell me what you talked about.
8 A. I don’t remember.
9 MR. THOMAS: Objection. That’s
10 privileged.
11 Q. Did he give you any advice?
12 MR. THOMAS: Objection. That’s
13 privileged.
14 MR. DAVISON: No, not whether or not
15 he gave -- just yes or no whether or not he gave
16 him any advice, that’s not privileged.
17 Q. Did he give you any advice?
18 A. Don’t remember.
19 Q. And any other questions about that you’re
20 refusing to answer based upon the advice of Mr.
21 Thomas, correct?
22 A. No.
23 Q. No?
24 A. Because I don’t remember everything that’s
25 happened in the past.

Page 32
1 Q. So you don’t remember -- you just remember
2 you talked to a criminal attorney in ’93, but you
3 don’t remember what you talked about; is that
4 right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And it was about the events of the evening of
7 May the 3rd -- May the 5th, correct?
8 A. Uh-huh. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. What did you do to prepare for the
10 deposition today, sir? Anything?
11 A. Read some papers.
12 Q. What did you read?
13 A. Just some papers.
14 Q. What papers?
15 A. I don’t know what they are. A bunch of
16 garbage.
17 Q. You have no idea what papers you read?
18 A. Yeah. Some statements.
19 Q. What statements?
20 A. From Sharon Nelson.
21 Q. What statements from Sharon Nelson?
22 A. A bunch of garbage.
23 Q. Well, what did Ms. Nelson say in those
24 statements that you think is a bunch of garbage?
25 A. How she believes that I told her I found the

Page 33
1 boys’ body before the police.
2 Q. When did you -- when did she make those
3 statements, Mr. Hobbs?
4 A. I don’t know who she made them to. It’s on
5 the paper.
6 Q. I asked -- I asked when she made those
7 statements?
8 A. I don’t know.
9 Q. Do you know who she made those statements to?
10 A. Sure don’t.
11 Q. Do you know when she made those statements?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. You haven’t sued her, have you?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Okay. Why not?
16 MR. THOMAS: Objection to the extent
17 that it calls for a legal conclusion.
18 MR. DAVISON: I didn’t ask him for a
19 legal conclusion.
20 Q. I’m asking you why --
21 MR. THOMAS: You’re asking for a
22 legal strategy. You’re asking for why he did
23 stuff, and you’re asking for the manner in which
24 he chose to exercise his rights under the law,
25 and that relates to legal strategy.

Page 34
1 Q. You can answer the question, Mr. Hobbs.
2 A. And the question was?
3 Q. Why haven’t you sued her? She said you found
4 the bodies before the police. That would be a
5 pretty damning thing if it was true, wouldn’t it?
6 A. Well, there’s been a lot of people say
7 garbage like that.
8 Q. Well, my question --
9 A. I hope I get to address them all.
10 Q. Well, this is your chance. Why haven’t you
11 sued her?
12 A. Well, maybe she’s on the list.
13 Q. You’ve got a list of folks you’re going to
14 sue?
15 A. Couldn’t tell you. Maybe in my mind.
16 Q. Okay. Well, if you were going to sue folks,
17 who would you sue?
18 A. Everyone --
19 MR. THOMAS: Object to the extent
20 that it calls for a legal conclusion.
21 Q. Who?
22 A. Everyone that brought my name up.
23 Q. Everybody?
24 A. I think deserves something.
25 Q. Do you want to humiliate all of them?

Page 35
1 A. I’m a victim of this.
2 Q. That’s not my question. You want to
3 humiliate everyone who’s brought your name up;
4 isn’t that right?
5 A. I’d like to see the Courts address every one
6 of them.
7 Q. Well, you said you want to humiliate the
8 Dixie Chicks. Do you want to humiliate everyone
9 who brought your name up?
10 A. That sounds fine to me.
11 Q. Sounds fine to you. All right. What other
12 papers did you look at in preparation for the
13 deposition?
14 A. Some other packs -- pile of garbage.
15 Q. Well --
16 A. I can’t think of them.
17 Q. I appreciate that, but I need to know what
18 pile of garbage you looked at, Mr. Hobbs?
19 A. I don’t know.
20 Q. You can’t remember a single other piece of
21 paper?
22 A. I don’t know what they was called. Just a
23 pile of papers.
24 Q. Well, explain to me how tall -- how tall a
25 pile of papers did you look at? Use your hand

Page 36
1 from the table.
2 A. Half-inch.
3 Q. Half-inch, okay.
4 A. Or less.
5 Q. Or less. Okay. And do you recall how
6 many -- how many different documents were in that
7 half-inch of paper?
8 A. No. After I started reading them -- oh,
9 yeah, I’m sorry. The police interview.
10 Q. Of you in ’07?
11 A. Roughly, if that’s when it happened.
12 Q. All right. That was before -- that police
13 interview, that was before November of ’07 when
14 Ms. Maines posted her letter and appeared at the
15 rally that you’re suing her on, right?
16 A. Sounds good.
17 Q. Well, that’s when -- I mean, not sounds good.
18 That’s when it was, wasn’t it?
19 A. I don’t know. I don’t keep up with the
20 dates.
21 Q. You don’t keep up with the dates. Well, if I
22 you that you were interviewed -- that your police
23 interview was several months prior to Ms. Maines
24 posting her letter or appearing at the Little
25 Rock rally, would that sound about right to you?

Page 37
1 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for
2 speculation. He said he didn’t know.
3 Q. I’m not asking --
4 A. I still don’t know.
5 Q. Still don’t know. You know that your
6 interview is available on the internet, isn’t it?
7 A. It is.
8 Q. In fact, the video is available on the
9 internet. You can get on Youtube and look at it,
10 can’t you?
11 A. You sure can.
12 Q. How long has that been available on the
13 internet?
14 A. Couldn’t tell you.
15 Q. Why did the police want to talk to you?
16 A. Ask the police.
17 Q. Okay. Okay. Other than looking at this
18 half-inch paper that you can’t recall, what else
19 did you do to prepare for your deposition, Mr.
20 Hobbs?
21 A. Tried to sleep on it.
22 Q. Tried to get a good night sheep?
23 A. I tried. It didn’t happen.
24 Q. I appreciate that. What else did you do?
25 A. Prayed about it.

Page 38
1 Q. Prayed about it. Anything else?
2 A. No.
3 Q. You met with your lawyers?
4 A. I did.
5 Q. When did you meet with them?
6 A. Last night.
7 Q. And who was present?
8 A. Mr. Ted and Mr. Cody.
9 Q. Anyone else present?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. How long did you meet with your lawyers
12 preparing for today?
13 A. 30, 40 minutes.
14 Q. Is that the only time you’ve met with them
15 preparing for today?
16 A. I would say yeah.
17 Q. Okay. And have you talked to anybody, other
18 than your lawyers, about the fact that you’re
19 being deposed today?
20 A. Maybe it’s -- I might have told some people
21 at work that I’m coming up here for a deposition.
22 Q. Did you tell them about what or just a
23 deposition?
24 A. Oh, they know.
25 Q. They know?

Page 39
1 A. They have followed this story all the way
2 through.
3 Q. Well, who would you have told at work?
4 A. Who. I work with a bunch of men.
5 Q. Okay. Have you spoken with anybody over the
6 phone about the deposition or preparing for the
7 deposition?
8 A. I’m not sure.
9 Q. Have you spoken -- did you speak -- other
10 than just getting with your lawyers about the
11 date and the logistics, the date, the where, the
12 when, have you spoken with your lawyer on the
13 phone preparing for the deposition?
14 A. No, I don’t believe so.
15 Q. Okay. Any reason you can’t give truthful
16 testimony here today, Mr. Hobbs?
17 A. Well, if I don’t remember something, it’s --
18 that happens.
19 Q. Well, and if you can’t --
20 A. I’m trying my best to be just as honest as
21 I’m sitting here.
22 Q. I appreciate that. And I don’t want you to
23 guess, and Ted and Cody don’t want you to guess.
24 If you can’t remember something or you don’t
25 know, just tell me that you don’t know.

Page 40
1 A. Right.
2 Q. But I don’t -- but if you do know, I’m
3 entitled to, I think, the best answer -- to
4 answer to the best of your knowledge?
5 A. Exactly.
6 Q. But there’s no reason why you can’t give
7 truthful testimony here today?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. You’re not on any sort of medication that
10 would impact your -- your ability to focus or
11 concentrate or give truthful answers?
12 A. I am not.
13 Q. And you haven’t done any drugs?
14 A. I don’t do drugs.
15 Q. You’ve done drugs in the past, haven’t you?
16 A. I don’t do drugs.
17 Q. That’s not my question. You’ve done drugs in
18 the past, haven’t you?
19 A. I’m not a druggy.
20 Q. Mr. Hobbs, did you not understand my
21 question?
22 A. I heard your question.
23 Q. And my question was very simple. Have you
24 done drugs in the past?
25 A. I tried medications in the past.

Page 41
1 Q. Medications. What medications?
2 A. Whatever the doctor gives you.
3 Q. So the only drugs that you’ve done in the
4 past are drugs that doctors have prescribed; is
5 that your testimony?
6 A. Well, I have smoked a joint.
7 Q. Other than -- other than smoking a joint, any
8 other drugs that you have used, other than drugs
9 that doctors have prescribed for you?
10 A. I’m not in the business.
11 Q. That’s not my question. My question -- I’m
12 not asking if you’re in the business of being a
13 drug dealer. My question is, is other than
14 smoking a joint or two, as you call it, as you
15 said, what other drugs have you done, other than
16 drugs that have been prescribed by physicians?
17 A. Young and dumb, you probably will try
18 anything, and I haven’t tried anything, but I’ve
19 never been in the drug world. I’m not on drugs.
20 Never been on drugs.
21 Q. So it’s your testimony that the only drugs
22 that you have ever done are drugs that have been
23 prescribed to you or a joint or two; is that your
24 testimony under oath, Mr. Hobbs?
25 A. Well --

Page 42
1 Q. And remember, you are under oath.
2 A. I know that.
3 Q. So my question is, other than drugs that a
4 physician has prescribed --
5 A. I tried cocaine a few times. Big deal.
6 Q. Tried cocaine a few times. So we’ve got some
7 joints, some cocaine. What other drugs?
8 A. None.
9 Q. Crystal meth?
10 A. I’m not in it.
11 Q. I’m sorry?
12 A. I’m not in the business.
13 Q. That’s not my question. My question --
14 A. I don’t do crystal meth.
15 Q. My question, sir, is under oath, can you --
16 is it your testimony that you have never done
17 crystal meth?
18 A. I tried it with my wife.
19 Q. You tried it. Okay. So you have done
20 crystal meth. Now we know you’ve done joints,
21 you’ve done crack, you’ve done cocaine, you’ve
22 done crystal meth?
23 A. I’ve never done crack.
24 Q. You’ve never done crack?
25 A. No, sir.

Page 43
1 Q. What other drugs have you done?
2 A. None.
3 Q. None. How many drug convictions do you have,
4 Mr. Hobbs?
5 A. None.
6 Q. None, you’ve never --
7 A. One.
8 Q. Well, is it none or is it one; what is it?
9 A. A joint, a half a joint.
10 Q. That’s the only time you’ve ever been
11 arrested for drugs?
12 A. Or whatever, anything to do with drugs.
13 Q. That’s the only time was one joint?
14 A. Yes, sir. Half a joint.
15 Q. Half a joint. When were you arrested for
16 half a joint?
17 A. ’04, ’05. I’m just guessing. I’m not sure
18 of the date.
19 Q. And it’s your testimony that’s the only time
20 you’ve ever been arrested, right?
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. You have to answer --
23 A. The only time I ever --
24 Q. We’ll get to all the other arrests and
25 convictions. The only time you’ve ever been

Page 44
1 arrested for drugs is that half a joint in ’04 or
2 ’05; that’s your testimony under oath?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Okay. Do you have a list -- you said you’ve
5 got a list of folks in your mind that you want to
6 sue. Give me the list.
7 A. Everybody who brought my name up about
8 suspecting me as a suspect, I feel like should be
9 dealt with in the courts.
10 Q. Okay. Other than just a general category, do
11 you have a list of specific folks that you want
12 to sue?
13 A. Everyone who brought my name up.
14 Q. My question is, do you have specific
15 individuals or entities in mind?
16 A. Oh, I would love to sue that defense team.
17 Q. Okay. And that would be Mr. Riordan and
18 those folks?
19 A. All his clowns.
20 Q. Okay. All his clowns. Who else?
21 A. Everybody else that brought my name up.
22 Q. I’m asking for specific -- did you have any
23 specific names, Mr. Hobbs?
24 A. Mark Byers.
25 Q. You want to -- why do you want to sue Mark

Page 45
1 Byers?
2 A. For calling me a child killer.
3 Q. When did he do that?
4 A. On TV. Ask him.
5 Q. My question is, when did he call you a child
6 killer on TV?
7 A. On Larry King.
8 Q. When did he do that?
9 A. Whenever they done the Larry King Live show.
10 Q. All right. Well, why haven’t you sued him?
11 A. Well, he might be on the list.
12 Q. Well, okay. My question is, if he came on TV
13 and called you a child killer, and -- I’m
14 assuming you didn’t do it. Did you do it? Did
15 you kill those three little boys?
16 A. I can’t believe you.
17 Q. Well, sir, my question is, is you’ve sued my
18 folks for a lot of bad things, and one of the
19 things is just basically saying that the wrong --
20 that they were wrongfully convicted, and the
21 killer of the three little boys is still at
22 large. And my question to you, sir, is did you
23 kill those three little boys?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. You know a lot of people think you did?

Page 46
1 A. I don’t care. That’s why I’m here today.
2 Q. Were you involved in the murder of the three
3 little boys?
4 A. No, sir. One of them little boys was my
5 stepson.
6 Q. I appreciate that, sir. Do you think the
7 West Memphis Three, the three that were convicted
8 in ’94, do you think they did it?
9 A. Sure do.
10 Q. No doubt in your mind?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Has there ever been a doubt in your mind?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You would agree with me, sir, that there is a
15 doubt in a lot of other people’s minds?
16 A. I don’t care about that.
17 Q. You don’t want them to get a new trial, do
18 you?
19 A. Justice has taken it’s toll, and I appreciate
20 the justice system.
21 Q. My question, sir, is you don’t want the West
22 Memphis Three to get a new trial, do you?
23 A. They don’t deserve one.
24 Q. Then I take it you don’t want them to get a
25 new trial?

Page 47
1 A. Exactly.
2 Q. And the reason is?
3 A. They killed three little boys.
4 Q. If there’s a doubt that they killed -- killed
5 the three little boys, do you think they deserve
6 a new trial?
7 A. There’s never been a doubt proven.
8 Q. Not in your mind?
9 A. Or the minds of the justice system.
10 Q. And you realize that those appeals are still
11 underway?
12 A. I don’t care.
13 Q. But you understand that?
14 A. I do.
15 Q. Okay. When was the last time you spoke with
16 a criminal lawyer about the killing of the West
17 Memphis -- about the killing of the three little
18 boys?
19 A. A criminal lawyer?
20 Q. Yes, sir.
21 A. Ross Sampson.
22 Q. When did you -- and Mr. Sampson, he’s a
23 criminal lawyer you consulted with regard to the
24 three killings, correct?
25 A. He’s more than a criminal lawyer.

Page 48
1 Q. I appreciate that, but you consulted him in
2 conjunction with criminal issues?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. He’s a -- he’s your spokesman, right,
5 to the public?
6 A. He was at that time.
7 Q. What time are we talking about?
8 A. ’07.
9 Q. So in ’07 --
10 A. Roughly ’07.
11 Q. Mr. -- you retained Mr. Sampson to be your
12 spokesman?
13 A. Mr. Sampson agreed to speak for me.
14 Q. Okay. Speak to you, you mean speak to --
15 speak to the public?
16 A. To the media, to the public.
17 Q. Okay. And is Mr. Sampson still your public
18 spokesperson today?
19 A. No, he is not.
20 Q. At what -- from what period of time was Mr.
21 Sampson your media spokesman?
22 A. During ’07, I’m thinking. I’m not sure.
23 Q. Okay. Well, when in ’07 did you first
24 contact Mr. Sampson about being your media
25 spokesman?

Page 49
1 A. I’m not sure.
2 Q. Well, was it spring, winter, fall, summer?
3 A. Fall probably. I’m just guessing the fall.
4 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for
5 speculation.
6 Q. I don’t want you to guess. I just want you
7 to give me the best answer that you can.
8 A. I just did.
9 Q. Was it before or after -- did you retain Mr.
10 Sampson to be your media spokesman before or
11 after you were interviewed by the West Memphis
12 police in ’07?
13 A. Probably before, if I remember right.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. I’m guessing again, because I don’t remember.
16 Q. Okay. How much did you -- did you have a
17 written agreement with Mr. Sampson?
18 A. Mr. Sampson didn’t charge me a penny.
19 Q. That’s not my question.
20 A. No, I did not, not on this issue.
21 Q. Not on the being a media spokesperson issue?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. He was authorized to speak on your behalf?
24 A. I give him the permission.
25 Q. Without getting into the specifics of what --

Page 50
1 well, let me back up. Was he acting as your
2 lawyer then or just a media spokesman?
3 A. A spokesman.
4 Q. Not a lawyer?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. He wasn’t giving you any legal advice?
7 A. Other than tell me not to talk to them, and
8 that’s why I told him -- that’s why I’m getting
9 with you. I want you to tell them.
10 Q. So as the media spokes representative or
11 consultant, Mr. Sampson advised you not to speak
12 to the media, right?
13 A. Probably. I don’t remember.
14 Q. Well, did he? I mean --
15 A. Ask him.
16 Q. Well, I’m asking you.
17 A. I don’t remember.
18 Q. You don’t remember if Mr. Sampson told you
19 to -- to or not to --
20 A. I told Mr. Sampson I wasn’t going to talk to
21 the media, and I want you to do it for me.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. So he did.
24 Q. Okay. And he was authorized to do so on your
25 behalf?

[Paid]

Page 51
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And did you and he talk about what he should
3 tell the media?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. What did you -- what did you guys talk about
6 that he should tell the media?
7 MR. THOMAS: Objection. Calls for
8 privileged communication.
9 MR. DAVISON: He’s already said it
10 wasn’t in a legal capacity.
11 MR. THOMAS: He’s not free to waive
12 that.
13 MR. DAVISON: It’s his privilege to
14 waive. He’s the only one that can.
15 MR. THOMAS: I instruct him not to
16 answer about any conversations he had with Mr.
17 Sampson.
18 Q. Are you refusing to answer that question?
19 A. I do.
20 Q. Okay. You said that’s the only -- that Mr.
21 Sampson didn’t charge you for that
22 representation. I take it from your answer that
23 he’s charged you in other contexts?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. You have to answer out loud, Mr. Hobbs.

Page 52
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What -- what other representation or how --
3 when else did you hire Mr. Sampson in which he
4 represented you in which you paid him money?
5 A. He did a Hollywood film contract with us.
6 Q. Is that the Dimension Film, or is that a
7 different one?
8 A. It’s Dimension Films.
9 Q. And he -- he was your entertainment lawyer I
10 guess?
11 A. That’s what he listed in the phone book as.
12 Q. Entertainment lawyer. So he’s an
13 entertainment lawyer and also a criminal lawyer?
14 A. He is.
15 Q. Okay. And he represented you when you sold
16 your life story to Dimension Films, right?
17 A. He did.
18 Q. And that was your life story in conjunction
19 with the murders that we refer to as the West
20 Memphis Three, right?
21 A. That’s my life story.
22 Q. Well, they were -- they were particularly
23 interested in the West Memphis Three and the
24 murders, correct?
25 A. I’m not sure. I just sold them my life

Page 53

1 story.
2 Q. How much money did you sell them your life
3 story for, Mr. Hobbs?
4 A. Is it relevant?
5 Q. Yes, sir.
6 A. 12,500.
7 Q. That’s what you got, and Pam got 12,500, too?
8 A. We did.
9 Q. And you anticipated that they were going to
10 make a movie out of that, right?
11 A. We were led to believe that.
12 Q. And you were cool with that, right?
13 A. Well, they presented it in a way that you
14 felt comfortable with it.
15 Q. And you were comfortable having your life
16 story and your involvement with the murders and
17 the trial made into a movie, and that’s why you
18 sold them the life story?
19 A. Exactly wrong.
20 Q. Well, why --
21 A. You just sat there and said my involvement
22 with the murders. That’s a stupid question.
23 Q. Your involvement, meaning your stepson --
24 whatever your involvement was, whether it be your
25 step -- how you found that he was missing, to the

Page 54
1 trial, to the hubabub afterwards. I didn’t say
2 that you were involved, Mr. Hobbs. But your
3 involvement, whatever that is, as the stepson, as
4 the stepfather --
5 A. As a parent.
6 Q. As a parent.
7 A. As a parent.
8 Q. You were comfortable with selling your story
9 and having that story made into a movie that
10 would have national release, were you not?
11 A. I guess.
12 Q. Yes or no?
13 A. I guess.
14 Q. I’m sorry. Yes or no?
15 A. We did sign a contract.
16 Q. And you anticipated that a movie with a
17 national release would be made?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And you were okay with that?
20 A. At that time we were.
21 Q. All right. And actually you sat down on two
22 separate occasions and gave a detailed interview
23 to Dimension Films, did you not?
24 A. We talked to them, yes.
25 Q. And they asked -- on two separate occasions,

Page 55
1 at least two separate occasions?
2 A. Seemed like it.
3 Q. And you told them basically what happened
4 that day, right?
5 A. Some. We didn’t go into detail like you
6 think.
7 Q. Well, I’ve read it. I’ve read the -- I’ve
8 read the notes.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Were you honest and truthful about what
11 happened?
12 A. I try to be.
13 Q. You didn’t make stuff up?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And what you told those folks actually
16 happened, right?
17 A. Well, I’m not sure what I told them. It’s
18 been a while ago.
19 Q. You tried to be truthful at the time?
20 A. I do.
21 Q. Okay. And the journals, the handwritten
22 journals that you produced in this case?
23 A. Uh-huh.
24 Q. Do you remember those?
25 A. I do.

Page 56
1 Q. You started making those journals May the
2 5th?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. When did you start making them?
5 A. Sometime in the nineties, early nineties.
6 Q. In the early nineties?
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. Before or after the murders?
9 A. After.
10 Q. Okay. Do you recall how long after the
11 murders?
12 A. I don’t.
13 Q. And in the journals, you set out kind of what
14 happened from your perspective, correct?
15 A. As I seen it that night.
16 Q. And were you truthful and honest in those
17 journals?
18 A. The best I could be and can be.
19 Q. Okay. And so what you put in the journals is
20 how you recall everything came down that night?
21 A. Through my eyes, yes.
22 Q. Okay. And you have attempted to sell those
23 journals to book publishers, have you not?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. When did you start trying to sell those

Page 57
1 journals to book publishers?
2 A. I’m not sure.
3 Q. Can you give me a time frame, sir?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Has it been -- when was the last -- do you
6 recall when the first time you did?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you recall the last time you did?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Do you recall who you sent it to?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Do you recall how many people you sent it to?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did anyone -- did you ever get any response
15 from any of the folks that you sent it to?
16 A. No, other than -- yes, I think I did. I
17 think one of them told me to send them $1200 and
18 they would work on it.
19 Q. Okay. Did you keep any documents or records
20 of the folks that you sent the -- the journals
21 to, the publishers?
22 A. No, not that I can recall.
23 Q. Do you ever recall telling folks that you had
24 a book deal?
25 A. Sure.

Page 58
1 Q. You were lying?
2 A. No, no, I don’t think I said a had a book
3 deal, no.
4 Q. Okay. You never told anybody you had a book
5 deal?
6 A. Maybe not like you’re trying to say. I might
7 have told them I was working on one, would like
8 to get one.
9 Q. Okay. But you never told anybody you had a
10 book deal?
11 A. I’m not sure.
12 Q. Well, if you did, that would be a lie,
13 wouldn’t it?
14 A. I’m not sure.
15 Q. Well, have you ever had a book deal?
16 A. No.
17 Q. So if you told somebody you had a book deal,
18 that would be a lie?
19 A. I might have told somebody I was working on
20 one at the time.
21 Q. Do you consider yourself an honest man, Mr.
22 Hobbs?
23 A. I try.
24 Q. Who else have you sold your life story to
25 other than Dimension Films?

Page 59
1 A. Nobody that I can recall.
2 Q. So if you -- if someone else -- so you’ve
3 never testified to that -- or not testified --
4 you’ve never said that, that you sold your life
5 story or had a deal to sell your life story to
6 somebody else?
7 A. I’m not sure.
8 Q. You’re not sure or you didn’t?
9 A. I don’t recall saying something like that.
10 Q. And do you recall any other efforts or
11 discussions with folks to sell your story, life
12 story, to other entities, for book deals or movie
13 deals or anything like that?
14 A. Well, we’ve always talked about books.
15 Q. Uh-huh.
16 A. But I don’t know of anyone else that I’ve
17 talked to to buy it.
18 Q. Okay. What about movies or films?
19 A. The HBO made a couple of documentaries.
20 Q. Right. And that’s Paradise Lost and Paradise
21 Lost 2?
22 A. It is.
23 Q. Any other films?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Were you compensated with regard to the HBO

Page 60
1 films about the murders?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Did you -- you signed releases so that you
4 could appear in those, right?
5 A. I’m not -- I don’t remember.
6 Q. You were okay with being in those?
7 A. Well, we -- we all talked about it.
8 Q. Who’s we?
9 A. Every family involved.
10 Q. What did you -- of the three little boys?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. All right. And what do you recall discussing
13 with the family of the three little boys about
14 the two HBO movies?
15 A. Some of us didn’t want to do it, some of them
16 wanted to do it.
17 Q. How did you come out on that?
18 A. How did you come out, I don’t recall. They
19 were going to do it anyway.
20 Q. Did you watch the video -- the documentaries?
21 A. Well, I did.
22 Q. What do you think of them?
23 A. Totally wrong.
24 Q. In what respects?
25 A. The portrayal.

Page 61
1 Q. Portrayal of who, you?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Of who?
4 A. The convicted.
5 Q. How was it totally wrong?
6 A. They kind of portray them as being innocent.
7 Q. Okay. How else were the documentaries
8 totally wrong?
9 A. I couldn’t tell you.
10 Q. You’ve never been deposed before, have you,
11 Mr. Hobbs?
12 A. Been where?
13 Q. Deposed, had to do this before?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Okay. Never testified in court before?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Okay. Never been a party to a lawsuit
18 before? You have to answer out loud?
19 A. No.
20 Q. No. Okay.
21 MR. THOMAS: I think he’s been a
22 party in a divorce proceeding.
23 MR. DAVISON: I understand that.
24 Q. I meant more of a civil.
25 A. No, sir.

Page 62
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. I’ve been through a divorce, two of them.
3 Q. Two of them. It happens. What -- very
4 briefly, sir, what’s your educational background?
5 A. High school.
6 Q. Finish high school?
7 A. No.
8 Q. 10th grade, is that the last year?
9 A. Roughly, I believe it was.
10 Q. Okay. Did you finish the 10th grade?
11 A. I don’t remember.
12 Q. Okay. Where did you go to school?
13 A. Well, I went to Cave City High School and
14 (inaudible) High School here in Arkansas.
15 Q. Okay. Why did you drop out?
16 A. I couldn’t tell you. Young and dumb.
17 Q. Okay. No other formal education?
18 A. No. Manager’s training, I graduated there as
19 a manager.
20 Q. You graduated where as a manager?
21 A. Manager’s Training Center in Memphis.
22 Q. Okay. Where did you currently live?
23 A. Memphis, Tennessee.
24 Q. What’s the address?
25 A. It’s been 2--- K-------C---.

Page 63
1 Q. Is that a house?
2 A. It is.
3 Q. Do you own that house?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Who owns the house?
6 A. D--- K---------.
7 Q. Do you rent it from Mr. K---------?
8 A. Some. A room in there.
9 Q. So he lives there as well?
10 A. Uh-huh, him and his wife.
11 Q. Okay. And how long have you lived with
12 Mr. K-------?
13 A. A couple of years.
14 Q. Who else lives there?
15 A. Their daughter.
16 Q. How old is she?
17 A. 20-something.
18 Q. Who else lives there?
19 A. Her boyfriend.
20 Q. What’s his name?
21 A. Ernest.
22 Q. Ernest what?
23 A. I don’t know.
24 Q. Okay. Who else lives there?
25 A. Nobody that I know of.

Page 64
1 Q. Okay. Where did you live before that?
2 A. On Macon Road.
3 Q. What address?
4 A. I don’t remember.
5 Q. Is it a house?
6 A. It was.
7 Q. Did you own that house?
8 A. Rented.
9 Q. Who did you rent it from?
10 A. I don’t recall his name.
11 Q. Did he live there, too?
12 A. No. He lived in Mississippi.
13 Q. Okay. Was that in Tennessee?
14 A. The Macon Road house was in Tennessee.
15 Q. How long have you lived in Tennessee?
16 A. Since ’94.
17 Q. Consistently since that time you’ve lived
18 there?
19 A. Uh-huh.
20 Q. You have to answer out loud.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. Where do you currently work?
23 A. Discount Building Supply.
24 Q. How long have you worked there?
25 A. A little over two years.

Page 65
1 Q. And what do you do for them?
2 A. I’m a salesman.
3 Q. What do you sell?
4 A. Anything to build a house with.
5 Q. Okay. Have you had any discussions with
6 anybody there about this lawsuit?
7 A. Oh, we talk about everything there.
8 Q. Do you talk about the lawsuit?
9 A. We have.
10 Q. Who have you talked to the lawsuit about at
11 your work?
12 A. Probably every employee there.
13 Q. Can you -- can you name the five people that
14 you’ve talked to the most about this lawsuit at
15 your -- at the job?
16 A. Probably Terry, Brett, Chris.
17 Q. I’m sorry. I need -- Terry?
18 A. Terry D----.
19 Q. Terry D----?
20 A. Brett A-------.
21 Q. Brett A-------?
22 A. Chris C---.
23 Q. Okay. Who else?
24 A. I don’t even know the rest of them’s last
25 names.

Page 66
1 Q. Well, what are their first names?
2 A. Vince.
3 Q. And who else? Give me one more.
4 A. Luther.
5 Q. What have you talked to them about the
6 lawsuit about?
7 A. Huh?
8 Q. What have you talked to them about about the
9 lawsuit?
10 A. I’m not sure. I don’t keep up with it.
11 Q. Okay. Have you told them you’re going to get
12 rich off this lawsuit?
13 A. No, nothing about money.
14 Q. Have you told anybody you’re going to get
15 rich off this lawsuit?
16 A. Not that I can recall.
17 Q. Have you told anyone that you’ve already
18 received an offer to pay you off in this lawsuit?
19 A. Huh-uh.
20 Q. You have to answer out loud.
21 A. No.
22 Q. And if you did -- if you did, that would be a
23 lie, wouldn’t it?
24 A. I imagine. Ain’t no one offered me nothing.
25 Q. So if you told someone that you had been

Page 67
1 offered money, that would be a lie, right?
2 A. I guess.
3 Q. And have you ever told anybody that you would
4 pay them a portion of the money that you got out
5 of this lawsuit?
6 A. No.
7 Q. So if anybody testified about that, they
8 would be lying?
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Because you’re not going to share your money,
11 are you?
12 A. I’m not about money.
13 Q. Okay. You’re not about money. You’re about
14 humiliation, right?
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Isn’t that right? Isn’t that what this is
17 all about, humiliation; isn’t that what you said?
18 A. Earlier.
19 Q. Well, is that right? Is that what this is
20 all about, Mr. Hobbs, humiliation?
21 MR. THOMAS: Objection. It assumes
22 facts not in evidence. He didn’t say it was all
23 about --
24 MR. DAVISON: You know what? It’s
25 objection form or not, or we’re going to get on

Page 68
1 the phone with the judge, okay? You can’t -- you
2 can’t coach this witness. I get to ask my
3 questions.
4 MR. THOMAS: You cannot misrepresent
5 his answer to your question.
6 MR. DAVISON: Well, then object --
7 object to form.
8 MR. THOMAS: That’s what I did.
9 MR. DAVISON: And then you started
10 to talk.
11 MR. THOMAS: You’re
12 mischaracterizing the evidence.
13 Q. Can you answer the question, Mr. Hobbs?
14 Isn’t this all about humiliation?
15 A. It’s to me is about justice.
16 Q. You’ve been humiliated about the allegations,
17 right, that have been made against you?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And you want to get revenge and humiliate
20 against people who made --
21 A. I want my day in court. I want my form of
22 justice as the Court deems necessary. That will
23 make me a little more happier.
24 MR. DAVISON: We need to change the
25 tape so let’s go off, and then I’ve just got

Page 69
1 about five minutes and we’ll take a break, but I
2 want to ask one set of question. Off the record.
3 VIDEOGRAPHER: We’ve going off
4 record to change tapes at 9:59 a.m.
5 (Off the record.)
6 (Back on the record.)
7 VIDEOGRAPHER: We’re now back on
8 record after a tape change at 10:02 a.m.
9 Q. (By Mr. Davison) Mr. Hobbs, you understand
10 that you are still under oath?
11 A. I do.
12 Q. Okay. I have -- I’ll be honest, as part of
13 this lawsuit, I have learned more about the
14 events of May the 5th than I ever knew about.
15 And I’ll also be honest, in that, in reading
16 these materials, looking at your police
17 interview, reading your journal, listening to
18 what other people said, it’s -- it’s still
19 unclear to me as to what happened that night, so
20 I wanted you to tell the ladies and gentlemen of
21 the jury, in your own words, what -- what
22 happened that night and what you did from when
23 you got off work until the three little boys were
24 found. I want you to tell us in your own words
25 what happened. Can you do that?

Page 70
1 A. I can.
2 Q. Please do.
3 A. But I’d rather not.
4 Q. Well, I appreciate that you’d rather not, but
5 I need you to. You’ve brought this lawsuit --
6 A. If you had to relive something like this.
7 Q. Mr. Hobbs, you’ve brought the lawsuit. You
8 chose to relive it. And so I want you to look
9 into that camera and tell the ladies and
10 gentlemen of the jury under oath what happened
11 that day and what you did.
12 A. I did what a parent would have done.
13 Q. I want you to walk me through from when you
14 got off work what you did and what happened until
15 the little boys were found. And I apologize if
16 it’s hard to relive. I have two little boys of
17 my own, and I can only imagine --
18 A. No, you can’t.
19 Q. I can only imagine the pain.
20 A. You cannot.
21 Q. Well, maybe I can’t, but I’ve lost -- I’ve
22 lost a brother to sudden death as well, so I
23 think I have a little empathy, maybe not as much.
24 But I need you, since you brought this lawsuit,
25 to look into that camera and tell the jury what

Page 71
1 happened.
2 A. As a parent, I come home from work May the
3 5th, 1993.
4 Q. Yes, sir.
5 A. I noticed that one of my children was not
6 home. I asked my wife, where is Stevie. He’s
7 gone off riding his bicycle with his friend
8 Michael Moore. I did what any other parent would
9 have done. I go outside and I look down the
10 street seeing when he is supposed to come home.
11 He was supposed to have been home by 4:30.
12 Couldn’t -- didn’t see him on the sidewalk.
13 Pam cooking supper. Why? Had to be at work by 5
14 o’clock. We -- we don’t eat supper because
15 Stevie is not home, and we’d always eat supper
16 together. And it comes 5 -- getting close to 5
17 o’clock and we decide to go ahead and take Pam to
18 work.
19 Q. That’s you and Amanda?
20 A. Me and Amanda and Pam.
21 Q. And Pam. You and Amanda decide to take Pam
22 to work?
23 A. We all three decided that it was time for her
24 to go to work.
25 Q. Between 4:30 and when you got home, it was

Page 72
1 time to take Pam, other than walking out and
2 looking in the street. Did you do anything to
3 find Stevie?
4 A. Not before then.
5 Q. All right. Go ahead.
6 A. We take Pam to work by 5 o’clock. We stopped
7 over at the Moore’s house.
8 Q. Pam worked where?
9 A. At Catfish Island restaurant.
10 Q. Okay. And how --
11 A. In West Memphis.
12 Q. How long did it take you to get from your
13 house to the catfish place?
14 A. Roughly 10 minutes.
15 Q. And did she get there right at 5:00 or a few
16 minutes before?
17 A. She usually tried to go in a few minutes
18 early.
19 Q. Okay. And then you and Amanda then went back
20 to your --
21 A. We stopped by the Moore’s house, Michael’s
22 Moore’s parents’ home, on the way over there to
23 take Pam to work.
24 Q. Were -- were they home?
25 A. No.

Page 73
1 Q. Did you ring --
2 A. The daughter was there.
3 Q. Did you -- you rang the bell and talked to
4 the daughter?
5 A. Pam -- I’m not sure if it was me or Pam that
6 done that.
7 Q. Well, Pam -- Amanda was what, four?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. So you sat in the car and sent your
10 four-year-old to the door?
11 A. I said Pam.
12 Q. Oh, Pam. I thought it was -- well, no, hold
13 on now. We’ve already dropped --
14 A. We were on our way to take Pam to work.
15 Q. Okay. Well, my question before -- and I
16 apologize. My question before had been, before
17 you got home -- after you got home and before you
18 dropped Pam off, what you had done other than go
19 outside in the street, and you said nothing. Now
20 you and Pam and Amanda stopped at the Moores on
21 the way or was that after you dropped Pam off?
22 I’m -- you can see why I’m confused, Mr. Hobbs?
23 A. On our way to take Pam to work we stop at the
24 Moore’s home.
25 Q. Okay. So Pam was still with you at that

Page 74
1 time?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. And Pam went to the front -- to the
4 Moore’s house?
5 A. One of us did.
6 Q. You or Pam, you don’t remember which?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And you rang the bell, and Mrs. Moore wasn’t
9 there but their daughter was there?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And who was their daughter?
12 A. Dawn Moore.
13 Q. And how old was Dawn at the time?
14 A. I think she was a little bit older than
15 Stevie.
16 Q. Okay. Eight, nine, 10?
17 A. Something like that. I’m not sure.
18 Q. Okay. And no one -- no one else was home.
19 Stevie obviously wasn’t there?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Okay. And so -- and then at that point, you
22 went from the Moore’s to the catfish place?
23 A. We did. Took Pam to work.
24 Q. And you got to the catfish place a little bit
25 before 5:00, and it took five minutes to get from

Page 75
1 your house to the catfish place. Where is the
2 Moores in relation to the route you would have
3 taken from your house?
4 A. The only route to -- from our home to her
5 work.
6 Q. Well, do you recall what time you left your
7 house to --
8 A. No, I don’t.
9 Q. -- to stop at the Moores?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Okay. All right. So you drop -- then you
12 drop -- you and Amanda drop Pam off and 5
13 o’clock?
14 A. Roughly.
15 Q. And then you go -- roughly. And then you go
16 back home. You don’t stop at the Moores again,
17 right?
18 A. I stopped at the Moores’ home on the way back
19 to see if the boys had made it there.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And they were not there.
22 Q. And did you go to the front door or did
23 Amanda?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. Okay. So now you went to the front door.

Page 76
1 And was just the daughter there still?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Anybody else there?
4 A. Not that I could see.
5 Q. All right. Then -- then what happened?
6 A. Well, we ride around the neighborhood looking
7 for them, because we know they’re on bicycles.
8 Q. So you and Amanda drove around the
9 neighborhood?
10 A. We did. We did that for a while.
11 Q. Do you recall how long?
12 A. No, I don’t. But anyway, we’re riding around
13 the neighborhood looking for our little boys on
14 bicycles. We don’t find them.
15 Q. Did you know who Stevie was with at that
16 point?
17 A. He was supposed to have been with Michael
18 Moore. That’s all I knew.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. So we --
21 Q. Where did you drive around looking?
22 A. Our neighborhood that we live in, West
23 Memphis.
24 Q. Okay. All over West Memphis?
25 A. In our neighborhood.

Page 77
1 Q. What’s the -- does the neighborhood have a --
2 A. It does not.
3 Q. What would be the boundaries of the area in
4 which you searched then, Mr. Hobbs?
5 A. From our home to his home.
6 Q. To the Moore’s home?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And where is the Robin Hood area; where is
9 that in relation to that?
10 A. Robin Hood was behind the Moore’s and Byers’
11 home.
12 Q. Okay. Okay. So you stopped at the Moores.
13 No one except the daughter is there. You drive
14 around with your four-year-old daughter for a
15 while?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. Then what happened?
18 A. And we go back to our home and we parked the
19 car, and me and Amanda walk around the
20 neighborhood.
21 Q. Do you recall about what time that is, sir?
22 A. No, I don’t.
23 Q. Was it before 6:00 or after 6:00?
24 A. I don’t recall.
25 Q. Okay.

Page 78
1 A. But we’re riding around the neighborhood --
2 or walking around at this point.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. Seeing if we could hear them, you know, see
5 them or something, and we don’t. So we go back
6 to our house, and Dawn Moore is pulled up in my
7 driveway.
8 Q. Do you know about what time you went back to
9 your house?
10 A. No, I don’t.
11 Q. Any sense, 7 o’clock, 6:30, 7:00, 8:00, 9:00?
12 A. No, I don’t.
13 Q. Was it light?
14 A. It was still daylight.
15 Q. Okay. So you went back to your house, and
16 Ms. Moore then came to your house?
17 A. She pulls up in our driveway.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. And she asked us if Michael Moore is at our
20 house, and I said no, is Stevie at yours, and she
21 said, no, but I’m heading back to her house -- or
22 she’s heading back to her house. And I said,
23 we’ll follow you over there and see if the boys
24 are there.
25 We get over at her house, the boys are not

Page 79
1 there. And we’re standing in her front yard
2 talking, and here comes John Mark Byers walking
3 across the street, and that’s the first time I
4 met John Mark Byers.
5 Q. Do you recall about what time this was, sir?
6 A. No, I don’t. And he asked is Christopher
7 over at the Moore’s home, and we -- you know,
8 Dawn -- or Dana speaks up and tells him no. And
9 it might have been then when we figured out they
10 all three might have been together.
11 VIDEOGRAPHER: Mr. Hobbs, I hate to
12 interrupt, but you’re covering your microphone.
13 MR. DAVISON: Thank you, sir.
14 Q. How long were you at the Moores before Mr.
15 Byers showed up?
16 A. I’m not sure.
17 Q. Five minutes, 10 minutes, a half-hour?
18 A. I’m not sure.
19 Q. Was it a short period of time or a long
20 period of time?
21 A. I’m not sure.
22 Q. How long were you at the Moore’s house?
23 A. It wasn’t that long, but I don’t know how
24 long. It wasn’t long.
25 Q. Okay. All right. So then what -- Mr. Byers

Page 80
1 shows up looking for his son, right?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Then what happened?
4 A. We just split up and start looking for them.
5 Q. Okay. Split up --
6 A. Dawn stays at the home and says she’ll wait
7 by the phone in case somebody called. I take my
8 daughter over to a friend’s home.
9 Q. Who is that?
10 A. David Jacoby and his wife Bobbie, they had
11 little kids also. David goes with me and we
12 start riding around looking for the little boys.
13 At the same time the Byers and Mark and Melissa
14 are riding around looking for their boy, and we
15 continue this for all the way up to the next
16 morning.
17 Q. Okay. I need to fill in a few -- obviously
18 fill in a few -- few blanks. How long were you
19 at Mr. Jacoby’s house?
20 A. Long enough to drop my daughter off and see
21 if he’d go help me.
22 Q. And did he go help you?
23 A. He went around with me and we rode around
24 looking, he sure did, all the way up till early
25 in the morning.

Page 81
1 Q. Well, let’s back up. So what -- what time --
2 do you recall what time you left Amanda at Mr.
3 Jacoby’s house?
4 A. No, I don’t.
5 Q. Do you recall how -- and you and Mr. Jacoby
6 rode around in a car looking?
7 A. We did.
8 Q. Your car or his car?
9 A. Probably mine.
10 Q. What kind of car were you driving?
11 A. I don’t remember.
12 Q. Where did you drive around?
13 A. The whole city of West Memphis.
14 Q. Just in your neighborhood or just all --
15 A. The whole city of West Memphis.
16 Q. Okay. Did you play any Guitar Hero while you
17 were at Mr. Jacoby’s?
18 A. I don’t recall. I don’t remember that.
19 Q. You don’t remember playing Guitar Hero at Mr.
20 Jacoby’s for a while?
21 A. Not that day. I don’t remember.
22 Q. You used to play Guitar Hero a lot at his
23 house, right?
24 A. No. Never.
25 Q. Never played Guitar Hero at his house?

Page 82
1 A. I played guitars at his house.
2 Q. Guitars. I’m sorry.
3 A. But not the game.
4 Q. I apologize. Do you recall playing guitars
5 at his house that night?
6 A. No.
7 Q. You don’t recall or you didn’t?
8 A. I don’t recall.
9 Q. Did you smoke any marijuana while you were at
10 his house?
11 A. No.
12 Q. That night?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Do any other drugs while you were at his
15 house that night?
16 A. No.
17 Q. While you were out looking for the boys,
18 prior to the time that you went to pick Pam up at
19 work, did you ever find the boys?
20 A. No.
21 Q. If somebody testifies that they saw you with
22 the boys that night?
23 A. Do what?
24 Q. If somebody testified that they saw you and
25 the boys, would they be lying?

Page 83
1 A. Uh-huh. They would be lying.
2 Q. Because you never find the boys?
3 A. No, I never found them.
4 Q. Never found them alive?
5 A. Never found them at all.
6 Q. So if someone were to testify that they saw
7 the three little boys standing behind you on the
8 evening of May the 5th, prior to the time that
9 you went to pick up Pam, they’d be mistaken?
10 A. Most definitely. I can’t wait to hear that
11 one.
12 Q. Did you see Stevie at all that day, May the
13 5th?
14 A. No, I did not.
15 Q. Did you see any of the three boys that day?
16 A. No, I did not.
17 Q. So you didn’t give Stevie -- what time was
18 Stevie supposed to be home, you said 4:30?
19 A. Pam told me 4:30.
20 Q. Okay. You never gave Stevie permission to
21 stay out later that night?
22 A. No. I never seen Stevie that day.
23 Q. Okay. Did you talk to Stevie that day?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you have a phone in your house?

1 A. Uh-huh, we did.
2 Q. Was it working?
3 A. Sure.
4 Q. Okay. So you and Mr. Jacoby -- so you
5 dropped your daughter Amanda off at Mr. Jacoby’s,
6 and you and Mr. Jacoby drove around all over West
7 Memphis looking for the three little boys?
8 A. Good answer.
9 Q. Well, that’s not my answer. That’s your
10 testimony, right?
11 A. It is.
12 Q. Okay. And you never found them?
13 A. We never.
14 Q. Never saw them?
15 A. Never.
16 Q. At some point, then you -- what time did you
17 stop looking with Mr. Jacoby?
18 A. David had to be at work May the 6th roughly
19 a.m., early a.m. May the 6th.
20 Q. When did you call the police to report that
21 your son was missing?
22 A. When we picked Pam up from work.
23 Q. Which was?
24 A. 9:00 p.m., May the 5th.
25 Q. 9:11 exactly, correct?

Page 85
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. Does that sound about right that you made the
3 call at 9:11?
4 A. I know we called from Catfish Island when I
5 picked her up at work.
6 Q. And at that point, Stevie was four-and-a-half
7 hours late?
8 A. 4:30 to 9:00.
9 Q. Why didn’t you call the police sooner?
10 A. I was busy looking and just thinking he was
11 playing at some boy’s house.
12 Q. Were you mad at him?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You weren’t mad at him for being late?
15 A. No. No. We didn’t act like that.
16 Q. You didn’t act like that? What do you mean
17 by that, sir?
18 A. We just didn’t act like that.
19 Q. Were you lenient with him; you didn’t punish
20 him much?
21 A. I was -- we was good parents.
22 Q. That’s not my question. Did you punish him
23 much?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Didn’t you tell the police in June of ’07

Page 86
1 that you used to hit him with a belt?
2 A. We correct him with a belt. We would whoop
3 him with a belt, but, no, we didn’t go around
4 hitting with belts.
5 Q. Well, when you got mad at him, you would hit
6 him -- you would punish him with a belt?
7 A. No.
8 Q. No? So you were lying to the police then?
9 A. No, sure wasn’t.
10 Q. Well, what is it? When you would punish him,
11 would you hit him with a belt or not?
12 A. Well, there was other forms of punishment
13 besides whooping them with belts.
14 Q. I understand that, but would you whoop him
15 with a belt?
16 A. I have.
17 Q. And you used to leave marks on him, didn’t
18 you?
19 A. Not that I ever seen.
20 Q. Do you lose your temper very often?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Pretty even keel guy?
23 A. Try to be.
24 Q. Have you ever hit your wife?
25 A. Slapped her once.

Page 87
1 Q. Only once?
2 A. Uh-huh.
3 Q. You have to answer out loud.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. So how long before you had to go
6 -- because it’s just you and Amanda went to pick
7 up am, Pam, right?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. So at some point you had to go back to Mr.
10 Jacoby’s house to get your daughter?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. At what point did you go back to Mr. Jacoby’s
13 house to get your daughter?
14 A. Before I went and picked Pam up.
15 Q. I understand that. How long?
16 A. I don’t know.
17 Q. Did you spend any time at Mr. Jacoby’s house
18 after you were out looking and you came back to
19 get Amanda before you went to pick up Pam, or was
20 it -- let’s get -- come on, Amanda, we got to go?
21 A. I’m sure I took her over there, dropped her
22 off -- or took him back home, picked her up and
23 we picked Pam up. I’m not sure how long we was
24 there.
25 Q. Did you have something to drink?

Page 88
1 A. I don’t drink.
2 Q. Glass of water?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And you don’t drink? You don’t drink
5 alcohol?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you then?
8 A. A little bit, socially.
9 Q. Socially. Well, did you have anything to
10 drink that night?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And it’s your testimony you weren’t mad at
13 your stepson for being out late?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. When you and Mr. Jacoby were driving around
16 looking for Pam -- looking for Stevie, prior to 9
17 o’clock, did you get out of the car at all?
18 A. Sure.
19 Q. Where?
20 A. Different places in West Memphis.
21 Q. Do you recall --
22 A. Go under -- we pulled up into this wooded
23 place, walked down a path under a bridge.
24 Q. What wooded place?
25 A. I don’t know what it’s called. Just -- we

Page 89
1 didn’t know what we was looking for, we was just
2 looking.
3 Q. So you were just walking around in the woods?
4 A. At different times, yes.
5 Q. Did you ever end up walking around in what’s
6 referred to as Robin Hill -- Robin --
7 A. We have. We done that.
8 Q. So you and Mr. Jacoby got out and walked
9 around in the Robin -- Robin Hood Hills area
10 prior to the time you picked Pam up looking for
11 the little boys?
12 A. I’m not sure if we went to Robin Hood, but we
13 was all over West Memphis looking for them.
14 Q. My question to you, sir, is when you and Mr.
15 Jacoby were looking for the three little boys,
16 prior to the time that you picked up Pam, did you
17 get out of the car and walk around the Robin --
18 A. I’m not sure.
19 Q. Well, wouldn’t that be something -- that
20 would seem to be something that you would
21 remember, if that’s where the little boys were
22 eventually found and you were there. So it’s
23 your testimony you can’t recall if you searched
24 the area where the three little boys were
25 actually found?

Page 90
1 A. Correct. No, we didn’t.
2 Q. I’m sorry?
3 A. We didn’t.
4 Q. You didn’t? You didn’t search the area?
5 A. Where they were found like you said, no.
6 Q. What about that general area? Did you get
7 out of the car in that general area?
8 MR. THOMAS: Is this question still
9 referring to the same time frame?
10 MR. DAVISON: The same time frame.
11 MR. THOMAS: 15 minutes ago?
12 MR. DAVISON: Absolutely, Ted.
13 A. No, I don’t recall. I’m not sure.
14 Q. You don’t recall?
15 A. We were in and out all over town, getting in
16 and out going different places looking for our
17 little boys.
18 Q. Okay. And then anything else that you did
19 other than drive around with Mr. Jacoby, in and
20 out of the car, different places, prior to the
21 time that you picked up Pam?
22 A. Not that I recall.
23 Q. Okay. You picked up Pam 9 o’clock?
24 A. (Nodding head up and down.)
25 Q. She came out with some candy for both kids?

Page 91
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And did you tell her that Stevie was still
3 missing or did you walk right past her to make a
4 call?
5 A. No. She come out with two pieces of candy,
6 and she says, where is Stevie, and I said, we
7 haven’t found him yet.
8 Q. And then what did she say?
9 A. He’s dead.
10 Q. And what did you say?
11 A. Don’t say that.
12 Q. Then what happened?
13 A. One of us went and called the police.
14 Q. Who?
15 A. I don’t know.
16 Q. You don’t remember if you called the police
17 or Pam called the police?
18 A. Sure don’t. Don’t care.
19 Q. You called the police, didn’t you?
20 A. I don’t -- couldn’t tell you.
21 Q. You don’t know?
22 A. Don’t know.
23 Q. Do you know what the police were told when
24 they were called at 9:11?
25 A. Huh-uh.

Page 92
1 Q. You have to answer out loud.
2 A. No.
3 Q. Do you know what the police’s response was?
4 A. They came out and took a police report.
5 Q. Came out where?
6 A. To Catfish Island. We were still there when
7 they came.
8 Q. And how long -- how long did it take for them
9 to get to Catfish Island?
10 A. I’m not sure. It wasn’t long.
11 Q. Half-hour, five minutes, hour?
12 A. I’m not sure.
13 Q. What’s -- what’s not long in that sense of
14 time, Mr. Hobbs?
15 A. I’m not sure of that. We called the police
16 and they showed up. No one timed them.
17 Q. And who was looking for Stevie at this time
18 while you were waiting at Catfish Island for the
19 police to show up?
20 A. Well, I don’t know who was looking for
21 Stevie. I don’t know.
22 Q. To your knowledge, was anybody?
23 A. I don’t know if there was anybody out there
24 looking for Stevie.
25 Q. Well, was anybody looking for the other two

Page 93
1 boys as well?
2 A. You would hope.
3 Q. But you don’t know that?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And then the police came to Catfish Island,
6 you made a police report, right?
7 A. We did.
8 Q. And then what happened -- then what happened?
9 A. We leave Catfish Island, and we go to Robin
10 Hood with the police.
11 Q. Why did you go to Robin Hood with the police?
12 A. That’s the last place that we had heard that
13 someone had seen them.
14 Q. Well, wait a second now. Who said that they
15 had seen the boys at Robin Hood?
16 A. A lot of people.
17 Q. Who?
18 A. I don’t know their names.
19 Q. Can you give me one person who told you,
20 prior to the time that the police came to
21 Catfish, who told you that they had seen the boys
22 at Robin Hood?
23 A. No, I cannot.
24 Q. Well -- and you told the police that they
25 were last seen at Robin Hood, right?

Page 94
1 A. That’s what we had been told.
2 Q. Who told you -- and when you say we, that’s
3 what somebody had told you?
4 A. Exactly.
5 Q. And who had told you that the boys were last
6 seen at Robin Hood?
7 A. I’m not sure of their names.
8 Q. Well --
9 A. A local.
10 Q. Where did you find these people?
11 A. We were going door to door or people out in
12 their front yards asking, have you seen three
13 little boys.
14 Q. On bicycles?
15 A. Uh-huh. Yes. Someone had told us that we
16 had seen them going into Robin Hood.
17 Q. And do you recall -- you don’t recall who
18 that was?
19 A. No, I don’t.
20 Q. It was someone in your neighborhood?
21 A. No. In the neighborhood, the Robin Hood.
22 Q. Was it a man or a woman who told you that?
23 A. Seemed like it was a man.
24 Q. Do you recall -- I take it you don’t know
25 that person’s name?

Page 95
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Do you know how old that person was?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Teenager, elderly person?
5 A. Older person.
6 Q. Kind of old like me or old like my
7 grandfather?
8 A. I couldn’t tell you. Just older. An adult.
9 Q. An adult. Okay. And was this between 4:00
10 and 6:00 before you went to the Jacoby’s that
11 somebody told you this or was this when you were
12 with Mr. Jacoby driving around?
13 A. It was before I picked Pam up.
14 Q. That’s not my question.
15 A. I’m not sure of your answer.
16 Q. Well, that’s not my answer, it’s your answer.
17 I want to know, did the person who told you that
18 they had last seen the boys in the Robin Hood
19 area, was that before or after you went to Mr.
20 Jacoby’s house?
21 A. I’m not sure.
22 Q. Were you alone searching for Stevie anytime
23 between 4:00 and 6 o’clock?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Were you alone searching for Stevie anytime

Page 96
1 between -- well, let me back up. Between 4:00
2 and 6:00, it was you and Amanda?
3 A. Me and Amanda after we took Pam to work.
4 Q. Okay. And Amanda at this point was four?
5 A. She was.
6 Q. And between 6 o’clock and, say, 7 o’clock,
7 were you alone at any point and time looking for
8 Stevie?
9 A. Not, not to my knowledge.
10 Q. It was always with Amanda?
11 A. Amanda or David.
12 Q. And Mr. Jacoby --
13 A. And there’s a time I picked David up.
14 Q. All right. And then you were with David from
15 the time that you dropped Amanda off at his house
16 until you went back to his house to pick up
17 Amanda to go get Pam; is that your testimony?
18 A. I was with David and a lot of other people
19 from time to time.
20 Q. And the other people were the other people in
21 the neighborhood looking for the three little
22 boys?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. After you picked Amanda -- after you
25 picked Pam up, you went back to your house?

Page 97
1 A. We went to Robin Hood first.
2 Q. Went to Robin Hood first. With the police?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Did you go into the woods?
5 A. We did.
6 Q. Did you see anything?
7 A. Woods. Growed up brush.
8 Q. How long were you at Robin Hood with the
9 police?
10 A. I don’t recall.
11 Q. Was it a long time or short time?
12 A. Short time, because it was coming up on their
13 shift change.
14 Q. Do you recall when the shift change was?
15 A. No, I don’t.
16 Q. And how many police officers were with you
17 and Pam and Amanda looking in the Robin Hood
18 area?
19 A. Well, first of all, Amanda wasn’t there.
20 Q. Oh, I thought Amanda -- I thought you went
21 straight from Catfish to --
22 A. No. I think she sat in the car. I don’t
23 think she got out.
24 Q. Okay. But she was with you in the car but
25 didn’t get out?

Page 98

1 A. Right.
2 Q. Okay. Okay. And then you and Pam and the
3 police officer got out?
4 A. Uh-huh. Yes.
5 Q. How many police officers were there?
6 A. One.
7 Q. And do you recall who that was?
8 A. Regina Meeks.
9 Q. Okay. And how long -- you don’t recall how
10 long you spent there?
11 A. No, but it wasn’t long.
12 Q. Five minutes?
13 A. Maybe that or a little longer.
14 Q. And then after that you went home?
15 A. I believe we did.
16 Q. Okay. And what did you do when you got -- do
17 you recall what time you got home?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Approximate?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Do you have any idea, a sense of how long
22 between the time Pam had gotten off work until
23 the time you got home?
24 A. No, I don’t.
25 Q. What happened when you got home?

Page 99
1 A. Well, we changed clothes and went back out.
2 Q. Pam changed both clothes out of her work
3 clothes?
4 A. She did.
5 Q. And you changed clothes?
6 A. Probably. I don’t remember.
7 Q. Why would you have changed clothes?
8 A. I said probably. I don’t remember.
9 Q. If -- probably -- if you changed clothes, why
10 would you have changed clothes?
11 A. Because I wanted to.
12 Q. Why?
13 A. I don’t have a why.
14 Q. You just did?
15 A. If I did, it’s because I wanted to. I might
16 have had on nicer clothes and wanted to put on
17 something that wasn’t so nice. We had been out
18 there in the woods.
19 Q. Okay. And how long were you at home before
20 you and Pam then went back out?
21 A. I’m not sure.
22 Q. And did you and Pam then go out together?
23 A. We did.
24 Q. Who was watching Amanda?
25 A. Probably the Jacobys.

Page 100
1 Q. Did you take Amanda to the Jacobys or were
2 the Jacobys at your house?
3 A. No. We probably took her back over there.
4 Q. So you took -- I’m just trying to figure out
5 what happened. So then you and Pam changed, you
6 took Amanda to the Jacobys?
7 A. We did.
8 Q. You and Pam took Amanda to the Jacobys,
9 dropped her off, and then went and searched some
10 more?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Where did you go -- and just you and Pam at
13 that point?
14 A. David might have went with us. As a matter
15 of fact, David did go with us.
16 Q. Walk or driving?
17 A. Driving.
18 Q. Your car or his car?
19 A. Probably ours.
20 Q. Okay. Do you recall what car?
21 A. No, because -- no, I don’t.
22 Q. Okay. Where did you go look?
23 A. Well, we -- it was kind of hard to get your
24 focus off of Robin Hood, because we were told
25 that they were last seen going into Robin Hood

[Paid]

   Keep this in mind for reference. (Later on the journals become "just a story":

13 Q. And in the journals, you set out kind of what
14 happened from your perspective, correct?
15 A. As I seen it that night.
16 Q. And were you truthful and honest in those
17 journals?
18 A. The best I could be and can be.

[Mara40]

I feel like I should have some comment to put towards discussion but really, I just don't even know where to start!  The whole conversation about drugs - oh my god! Even when he does (finally!) concede to partaking in drugs other than prescribed medications and the one joint and the odd dabble in cocaine (I'm sure pulling teeth is easier Paid!), he has to say he tried meth 'with his wife'.  The man just will not take responsilibty for anything!

[Gullydevi]

Very interesting on many levels Paid. I'll comment more on the particulars later, but I thank you very much for this info!

[Paid]

12 Q. Okay. I have -- I’ll be honest, as part of
13 this lawsuit, I have learned more about the
14 events of May the 5th than I ever knew about.
15 And I’ll also be honest, in that, in reading
16 these materials, looking at your police
17 interview, reading your journal, listening to
18 what other people said, it’s -- it’s still
19 unclear to me as to what happened that night, so
20 I wanted you to tell the ladies and gentlemen of
21 the jury, in your own words, what -- what
22 happened that night and what you did from when
23 you got off work until the three little boys were
24 found. I want you to tell us in your own words
25 what happened. Can you do that?

Page 70
1 A. I can.
2 Q. Please do.
3 A. But I’d rather not.


     Hahahaaa!!!....I reckon!

[Paid]

4 Q. Well, I appreciate that you’d rather not, but
5 I need you to. You’ve brought this lawsuit --
6 A. If you had to relive something like this.
7 Q. Mr. Hobbs, you’ve brought the lawsuit. You
8 chose to relive it. And so I want you to look
9 into that camera and tell the ladies and
10 gentlemen of the jury under oath what happened
11 that day and what you did.
12 A. I did what a parent would have done.
13 Q. I want you to walk me through from when you
14 got off work what you did and what happened until
15 the little boys were found. And I apologize if
16 it’s hard to relive. I have two little boys of
17 my own, and I can only imagine --
18 A. No, you can’t.
19 Q. I can only imagine the pain.
20 A. You cannot.


    It's so painful to Hobbs that he wrote four journals about it......Owww!!...owww!!!....ouch!!!...stop!!!

[nightbreed]

5 Q. When was the first time you spoke with an
6 attorney about the events that occurred on May
7 the 5th, 1993?
8 A. I’m not sure.
9 Q. Did you speak with an attorney in ’93 about
10 that event?
11 A. Yes, I believe we did.
12 Q. Who did you speak with? I’m not asking what
13 you spoke about, I’m just asking who you spoke --
14 who you spoke with?
15 A. Seemed like it was Wayne Emans.
16 Q. Who is Mr. Emans?
17 A. He’s an attorney.
18 Q. Is Mr. Emans a criminal attorney?
19 A. He is.
20 Q. Why did you speak with a criminal attorney in
21 ’93 about the events about the murder of the
22 three little boys?
23 A. Not knowing who to talk to, we just called
24 someone up out of the phone book and talked to
25 him.


if anyone has more info about wayne emans, please let me know:-) - and the last paragraph: the "we" is interesting (it's always not terry alone), and the "not knowing who to talk to"...

[wraith]

That was hard work reading that so he is goung to sue everyone who brought his name up give me a break.Also I thought the phone in the Hobbs household did not work in 93 in this deposition he says it was working.

[Paid]

I thought the phone in the Hobbs household did not work in 93 in this deposition he says it was working.

 
    Stevie's Missing Person Report:

[Pinky]

Page 43
1 Q. What other drugs have you done?
2 A. None.
3 Q. None. How many drug convictions do you have,
4 Mr. Hobbs?
5 A. None.
6 Q. None, you’ve never --
7 A. One.


First he has "none" drug convictions and then he has "one".....does Terry Hobbs know what being under oath even means?  This guy don't have a honest bone in his body!

[Paid]

WMPD interview:
Terry Hobbs: And when I come back you know I didn't see any change, no bicycles in the front yard so we just drove around from street to street in the neighbourhood, seeing if we could see em.



 Hobbs' deposition:
18 A. I stopped at the Moores’ home on the way back
19 to see if the boys had made it there.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And they were not there.
22 Q. And did you go to the front door or did
23 Amanda?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. Okay. So now you went to the front door.

Page 76
1 And was just the daughter there still?
2 A. Yes.



    

[nightbreed]

Page 78
1 A. But we’re riding around the neighborhood --
2 or walking around at this point.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. Seeing if we could hear them, you know, see
5 them or something, and we don’t. So we go back
6 to our house, and Dawn Moore is pulled up in my
7 driveway.
8 Q. Do you know about what time you went back to
9 your house?
10 A. No, I don’t.
11 Q. Any sense, 7 o’clock, 6:30, 7:00, 8:00, 9:00?
12 A. No, I don’t.
13 Q. Was it light?
14 A. It was still daylight.
15 Q. Okay. So you went back to your house, and
16 Ms. Moore then came to your house?
17 A. She pulls up in our driveway.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. And she asked us if Michael Moore is at our
20 house, and I said no, is Stevie at yours, and she
21 said, no, but I’m heading back to her house -- or
22 she’s heading back to her house. And I said,
23 we’ll follow you over there and see if the boys
24 are there.

REALITY: he searched with amanda for 3 hours, he does not mention jacoby until after 8 ERGO the jacoby declaration is total complete crap but just for terry!

[Paid]

Deposition:
So we go back to our house, and Dawn Moore is pulled up in my driveway.

WMPD interview:
We went back to our house and, um, we hadn't been there very long and Dana pulled up and asked if Michael was at our house and I told her I said no, but they're suppose to be at your house .


    Yeah, nightbreed...which one is it?   Was Dana already in Hobbs' driveway when he came home...or was he at home when Dana pulled up?

[nightbreed]

12 Q. Then what happened?
13 A. One of us went and called the police.
14 Q. Who?
15 A. I don’t know.
16 Q. You don’t remember if you called the police
17 or Pam called the police?
18 A. Sure don’t. Don’t care.
19 Q. You called the police, didn’t you?
20 A. I don’t -- couldn’t tell you.
21 Q. You don’t know?
22 A. Don’t know.
23 Q. Do you know what the police were told when
24 they were called at 9:11?
25 A. Huh-uh.

IS THE GUY ON CRACK OR WHAT?!?

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WM3 Blackboard > WM3 > Terry Wayne Hobbs > Civil Suit - Exhibits and Status Documents > Topic: Text Version of the Hobbs Deposition